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AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

techcrunch.com

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Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#41

Post by HeatrayEnjoyer »

scarface_74 wrote: post #29
troupo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I don't see here is how the EU is actually defining what is and is not considered AI. Because instead of reading the source, you're reading a sensationalist article. > That can be a hugely broad category that covers any algorithmic feed or advertising platform. Again, read the EU AI Act. It's not like it's hidden, or hasn't been available for several years already. ---- We're going to get a repeat of GDPR aren…

Maybe if the GDPR was a simple law instead of 11 chapters and 99 sections and all anyone got as a benefit from it is cookie banners it would be different.

GDPR doesn't benefit anyone? Is that a joke?

Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#42

Post by mhitza »

HeatrayEnjoyer wrote: post #36
mhitza wrote: post #18

> AI that attempts to predict people committing crimes based on their appearance. Should have been > AI that attempts to predict people committing crimes

Why?

I'd prefer if Minority Report remains a work of fiction, or at least not possible in the EU.

Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#43

Post by amelius »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #33

I am not expert but there seems to be an overlap in the article between 'AI' and well ... just software, or signal processing: - AI that collects “real time” biometric data in public places for the purposes of law enforcement. - AI that creates — or expands — facial recognition databases by scraping images online or from security cameras. - AI that uses biometrics to infer a person’s characteristics - AI that collect…

You can even replace AI by humans. For example, it is not legal for e.g. police officers to engage in racial profiling.

Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#44

Post by hcfman »

mhitza wrote: post #18

> AI that attempts to predict people committing crimes based on their appearance. Should have been > AI that attempts to predict people committing crimes

Except government systems for the same. In the Netherlands we had the benefits affaire. A system that attempted to predict people committing benefits crime. Destroying the lives of more than 25,000 people before anyone kicked in.

Do you think they are going to fine their own initiatives out of existence? I don't think so.

However, they also have a completely extrajudicial approach to fighting organised crime. Guaranteed to be using AI approaches on the banned list. But you won't have get any freedom of information request granted investigating anything like that.

For example, any kind of investigation would often involve knowing which person filled a particular role. They won't grant such requests, claiming it involves a person, so it's personally. They won't tell you.

Let's have a few more new laws to provide the citizens please, not government slapp handles.

Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#45

Post by mhitza »

troupo wrote: post #27
mhitza wrote: post #18

> AI that attempts to predict people committing crimes based on their appearance. Should have been > AI that attempts to predict people committing crimes

Instead of relying on Techcrunch and speculating, you could read sections (33), (42), and (59) of the EU AI Act yourself.

Article 59 seems relevant, other two on a quick skim don't seem to relate to the subject.

> 2. For the purposes of the prevention, investigation, detection or prosecution of criminal offences or the execution of criminal penalties, including safeguarding against and preventing threats to public security, under the control and responsibility of law enforcement authorities, the processing of personal data in AI regulatory sandboxes shall be based on a specific Union or national law and subject to the same cumulative conditions as referred to in paragraph 1.

https://artificialintelligenceact.eu/article/59/

Seems like it allows pretty easily for national states to add in laws that allow them to skirt around

Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#47

Post by spacemanspiff01 »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #33

I am not expert but there seems to be an overlap in the article between 'AI' and well ... just software, or signal processing: - AI that collects “real time” biometric data in public places for the purposes of law enforcement. - AI that creates — or expands — facial recognition databases by scraping images online or from security cameras. - AI that uses biometrics to infer a person’s characteristics - AI that collect…

From the laws text:

For the purposes of this Regulation, the following definitions apply:

(1) ‘AI system’ means a machine-based system that is designed to operate with varying levels of autonomy and that may exhibit adaptiveness after deployment, and that, for explicit or implicit objectives, infers, from the input it receives, how to generate outputs such as predictions, content, recommendations, or decisions that can influence physical or virtual environments; Related: Recital 12

https://artificialintelligenceact.eu/article/3/ https://artificialintelligenceact.eu/recital/12/ So, it seems like yes, software, if it is non-deterministic enough would qualify. My impression is that software that simply takes "if your income is below this threshold, we deny you a credit card." Would be fine, but somewhere along the line when your decision tree grows large enough, it probably changes.

Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#48

Post by hcfman »

mhitza wrote: post #45
troupo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Instead of relying on Techcrunch and speculating, you could read sections (33), (42), and (59) of the EU AI Act yourself.

Article 59 seems relevant, other two on a quick skim don't seem to relate to the subject. > 2. For the purposes of the prevention, investigation, detection or prosecution of criminal offences or the execution of criminal penalties, including safeguarding against and preventing threats to public security, under the control and responsibility of law enforcement authorities, the processing of personal data in AI regulat…

Yep, they want to be able to continue to violate human rights and do the dirty.

Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#49

Post by troupo »

scarface_74 wrote: post #29
troupo wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I don't see here is how the EU is actually defining what is and is not considered AI. Because instead of reading the source, you're reading a sensationalist article. > That can be a hugely broad category that covers any algorithmic feed or advertising platform. Again, read the EU AI Act. It's not like it's hidden, or hasn't been available for several years already. ---- We're going to get a repeat of GDPR aren…

Maybe if the GDPR was a simple law instead of 11 chapters and 99 sections and all anyone got as a benefit from it is cookie banners it would be different.

> Maybe if the GDPR was a simple law

It is a simple law. You can read it in an afternoon. If you still don't understand it 8 years later, it's not the fault of the law.

> instead of 11 chapters and 99 sections

News flash: humans and their affairs are complicated

> all anyone got as a benefit from it is cookie banners

Please show me where GDPR requires cookie banners.

Bonus points: who is responsible for the cookie banners.

Double bonus points: why HN hails Apple for implementing "ask apps not to track", boos Facebook and others for invasive tracking, ... and boos GDPR which literally tells companies not to track users

Re: AI systems with 'unacceptable risk' are now banned in the EU

#50

Post by uniqueuid »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #33

I am not expert but there seems to be an overlap in the article between 'AI' and well ... just software, or signal processing: - AI that collects “real time” biometric data in public places for the purposes of law enforcement. - AI that creates — or expands — facial recognition databases by scraping images online or from security cameras. - AI that uses biometrics to infer a person’s characteristics - AI that collect…

Unfortunately yes, the article is a simplification, in part because the AI act delegates some regulation to existing other acts. So to know the full picture of AI regulation one needs to look at the combination of multiple texts.

The precise language on high risk is here [1], but some enumerations are placed in the annex, which (!!!) can be amended by the commission, if I am not completely mistaken. So this is very much a dynamic regulation.

[1] https://artificialintelligenceact.eu/article/6/

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