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Craigslist Suing Padmapper

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Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#301

Post by [deleted] »

untog wrote: post #244
pg wrote: post #210

Craig Newmark said on Quora that the reason they didn't like people building stuff on top of Craigslist was simply the extra bandwidth they consumed: http://www.quora.com/Why-hasnt-anyone-built-any-products-on-... But now that 3Taps has found an ingenious way to get at the data with zero extra bandwidth cost to Craigslist (by retrieving it from the Google cache rather than CL itself), it's clear that what Craigslist…

what Craigslist really dislikes is competition Hm, would you not say that what Craigslist really dislikes is their competition piggy-backing off their data ? Craigslist seemed quite happy with the existing situation until Padmapper launched their own listing service. Though I agree that it's not in the spirit of a .org, if such concept exists.

[deleted]

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#302

Post by Zakuzaa »

pg wrote: post #210

Craig Newmark said on Quora that the reason they didn't like people building stuff on top of Craigslist was simply the extra bandwidth they consumed: http://www.quora.com/Why-hasnt-anyone-built-any-products-on-... But now that 3Taps has found an ingenious way to get at the data with zero extra bandwidth cost to Craigslist (by retrieving it from the Google cache rather than CL itself), it's clear that what Craigslist…

I have heard people saying "we love competition". I wonder if they really mean it. Not saying one cant't love competition, just that the phrase is used so commonly that it's hard to digest.

I, for one, hate my competitors. Basic insticts perhaps?

Is not disliking your competitors something that is practiced by majority? OR is it at least very common? Common enough to point at a company that doesn't follow it?

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#303

Post by unavoidable »

p0ckets wrote: post #287
unavoidable wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Law student here, but I don't know the full details of the claim CL is making] The case doesn't actually seem open and shut at all. CL seems to have a "moral high ground" in that they provide the original service and the platform for users to post information, but the legal ground is more shaky. It is relatively settled in copyright law (which appears to be the main thrust of CL's argument) that effort alone does no…

Is it clear that Padmapper is bound by the TOU of CL? Padmapper probably has a contractual relationship with 3Taps, and Google probably has a contractual relationship with CL. I'm not sure 3Taps has entered into a contractual relationship with Google by scraping their cache, but even if they did, what is the legal agreement between CL and Padmapper?

Hmm that is a good question, which I didn't consider. What I said would have applied to the original method that Padmapper used to scrape data directly from Craigslist but probably not under the new arrangement through 3Taps. Probably nobody is bound by the TOU except Google, and unless Google has a collateral contract (TOU) with 3Taps and/or Padmapper there probably isn't a claim at all. Good catch.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#304

Post by ceejayoz »

stcredzero wrote: post #282
ceejayoz wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no Constitutional right to a practical apartment hunt, either.

There's also no constitutional right to uninstalling a browser and installing your own browser. That doesn't mean something isn't going wrong with the public's interests. When a group can interfere with how you hunt for a place to live something is up. Where you live is pretty fundamental.

> When a group can interfere with how you hunt for a place to live something is up.

What entitled bullshit. People/companies do that all the time. Padmapper could've run out of money and shut themselves down - would you pursue a court injunction on the basis that they shouldn't be able to interfere with how you hunt for an apartment? How about if they changed the UI in a way you didn't like?

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#305

Post by scotty79 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #226
scotty79 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No they don't. They just have to check the stupid checbox that doesn't do anything because otherwise they can't post advertisment they wrote. I'd say cheking this checkbox is coerced. Also you may check it witout reading what's written next to it.

Posting to Craigslist isn't a Constitutional right. Don't agree with the terms? Don't post there. No one's coercing.

They have a public interface. I'm using it without agreeing to anything. They can't make me agree by presenting me with checkbox. They can't prevent me from using their interface if I don't agree. On the other hand I can't make them actually publish the information I entered or keep them to their word on anything they declare. It's not what lawers like but that's how internet works.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#306

Post by pg »

eli wrote: post #268
kloncks wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It's not their data. It's ours, as the users. Craigslist doesn't own anything I upload to them. The reason PadMapper exists is because Craigslist refuses to not suck.

Exactly right. And if you want your data to be reposted on another site, then you should repost it. Craigslist is delivering exactly what it its users signed up for (no more no less). People posting ads on Craigslist do not necessarily want or intend for it to be reposted on other sites.

"People posting ads on Craigslist do not necessarily want or intend for it to be reposted on other sites."

That argument appears to be invalidated by Craiglist's own terms of use, which say that when you upload a listing to Craigslist they can syndicate it wherever they want (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4287519).

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#307

Post by malandrew »

hardtke wrote: post #113
eli wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this has any legal bearing for anyone, but it's worth noting that Google respects publishers who do not wish to be indexed.

Here's the abstract for a nice review of search engine law: http://works.bepress.com/james_grimmelmann/13/ If I remember correctly, indexing a site that asks to not be indexed might be illegal as an illegal tresspass, but it is not settled law. The argument is that you are stealing resources (computer time) from the site owner.

IANAL but AFAIK it is only a civil matter (i.e. not illegal) since it is a usually prosecuted as a tort of trespass to chattels. For such a case to succeed the prosecution needs to show that the actions of the defendant deprived them of use of the good they were trespassing on. i.e. they need to cause enough of a burden on the servers that the claimant or their customers could not use the service.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#308

Post by debacle »

warfangle wrote: post #266
kloncks wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It's not their data. It's ours, as the users. Craigslist doesn't own anything I upload to them. The reason PadMapper exists is because Craigslist refuses to not suck.

"You automatically grant and assign to CL, and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant and assign to CL, a perpetual, irrevocable, unlimited, fully paid, fully sub-licensable (through multiple tiers), worldwide license to copy, perform, display, distribute, prepare derivative works from (including, without limitation, incorporating into other works) and otherwise use any content that you post. You…

Hadn't actually dug into the ToS, but the bit:

> You also expressly grant and assign to CL all rights and causes of action to prohibit and enforce against any unauthorized copying, performance, display, distribution...

Seems to be vital to this case.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#309

Post by malandrew »

eli wrote: post #268
kloncks wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. It's not their data. It's ours, as the users. Craigslist doesn't own anything I upload to them. The reason PadMapper exists is because Craigslist refuses to not suck.

Exactly right. And if you want your data to be reposted on another site, then you should repost it. Craigslist is delivering exactly what it its users signed up for (no more no less). People posting ads on Craigslist do not necessarily want or intend for it to be reposted on other sites.

Uh oh... Bye bye Google and all search engines.

Re: Craigslist Suing Padmapper

#310

Post by TomAnthony »

slig wrote: post #177
learc83 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The argument is that you are stealing resources (computer time) from the site owner. That's why 3taps is getting the data from google's cache without touching craigslist servers.

How the heck are they scraping Google without being banned or rate limited?

There are a lot of companies that are scraping Google quite successfully. Many of these are for 'rank checking' services that provide ranking data for certain keywords over time; these are heavily used by SEO and marketing agencies.

The two that jump to mind are Authority Labs and SEOmoz.

I guess: a shed load of proxies. :)

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