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Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

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361–370 of 1001 posts

Re: Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

#361
post #335

Still overvalued IMO. Their market cap remains ludicrous.

Everything is overvalued if you think in terms of earning multiples, p/s, p/e should be 1:1

Discounted future cashflows. If you buy an asset and every year it produces $100 profit for you it's worth more than $100. You're buying the ability to produce profits in the future not the profits its produced in the past. Those profits belong to the shareholders who have cashed that out already (through dividends or reinvestment).

Re: Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

#362

I just want to know if I can buy a gaming video card at a reasonable price or if i should hold off on it. I don't care about the AI shit. And yes I'd prefer nvidia because their closest competitor can't tape a box together nevermind develop and assemble a graphics card.

Unlikely. Companies have doubled down on AI so expect the fall to be long and slow (think 2 years).

Re: Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

#363
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's legally a grey area. It might even be fair use. Facts themselves are not protected by copyright. If there's no unauthorized reproduction/copying then it's not a copyright issue. (Maybe it's a violation of terms of services of course.)

Copies are made in the formation of the training corpus and in the memory of the computers during training so there's definitely a copyright issue. Could be fair use though.

Is there also a copyright issue with search engines?

Re: Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

#365
post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a possibility, but my understanding of what OpenAI has said is that GPT-5 is delayed because of the apparent promise of RL trained things like o1, etc. and that they've simply decided to train those instead of training a bigger base model training on better data, and I think this is plausible.

OpenAI has an incentive to make people believe that the scaling laws are still alive, to justify their enormous capex if nothing else. I wouldn't give what they say to much credence, and will only believe the results I see.

Yes, I think I agree that it seems unlikely that the spending they're doing can be recouped.

But it can still make sense for a state, even if it doesn't make sense for investors though.

Re: Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

#366

So the Chinese graciously gift a paper and model which describes methods that radically increase the efficiency of hardware which will allow US AI firms to create much better models due to having significantly more AI hardware and people are bearish on US AI now?

You can be bullish about US AI but at the same time not believe that the industry is worth $10T+ right now.

Re: Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

#367
post #357

DeepSeek has humiliated the entire US tech sector. I wonder if they will learn from this, fire their useless middle management and product managers with sociology degrees, and actually pivot to being technology companies?

"Again, just to emphasize this point, all of the decisions DeepSeek made in the design of this model only make sense if you are constrained to the H800; if DeepSeek had access to H100s, they probably would have used a larger training cluster with much fewer optimizations specifically focused on overcoming the lack of bandwidth."

https://stratechery.com/2025/deepseek-faq/

Re: Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

#368
post #341

IMO this is less about DeepSeek and more that Nvidia is essentially a bubble/meme stock that is divorced from the reality of finance and business. People/institutions who bought on nothing but hype are now panic selling. DeepSeek provided the spark, but that's all that was needed, just like how a vague rumor is enough to cause bank runs.

I don't think it's fair to say NVDA is meme stock, having reported 35B revenue last quarter.

Re: Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

#369
post #341

IMO this is less about DeepSeek and more that Nvidia is essentially a bubble/meme stock that is divorced from the reality of finance and business. People/institutions who bought on nothing but hype are now panic selling. DeepSeek provided the spark, but that's all that was needed, just like how a vague rumor is enough to cause bank runs.

Hard to argue Nvidia is a meme stock and that Tesla is not a bigger meme stock. If meme stocks were imploding, why is Tesla fine? This is about DeepSeek.

The market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.

Re: Nvidia’s $589B DeepSeek rout

#370
This is really dumb.

Deepseek showing that you can do pure online RL for LLMs means we now have a clear path to just keep throwing more compute at the problem! If anything we made the whole "we are hitting a data wall" problem even smaller.

Additionally, its yet another proof point that scaling inference compute is a way forward. Models that think for hours or days are the future.

As we move further into the regime of long sequence inference, compute scales by the square of the sequence length.

The lesson here was not "training is going to be cheaper than we thought". It's "we must construct additional pylons uhhh _PUs"

Markets remain irrational and all that...

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