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Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

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Re: Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

#461

Post by rasz »

mort96 wrote: post #98
criticalfault wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we can see the same thing happening today. BYD+CATL are the new iphone and other manufacturers are Symbian, Motorola and Sony Ericsson VW, Toyota and friends cannot change fast enough. They should have started with big battery investments 10-15y ago and RnDing then, not now when Market is flooded.

I don't see the comparison. BYD is a decent car for an impressive price, but they're ... just cars. The iPhone wasn't "just a phone" that was cheaper than its contemporaries and a little better in very specific areas, it was a complete overhaul of the entire market. You can look at a BYD and a Nissan and make a decision based on minor trade-offs between different aspects of the car. You couldn't do the same between i…

>BYD is a decent car for an impressive price, but they're ... just cars.

BYD car division has multiple departments doing independent R&D and releasing independent lines. They were first with 360° tank turn and now a jumping supercar. They are trying hard to deliver things others like Musk keep promising down the line.

Re: Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

#462

Post by rasz »

indrora wrote: post #392
jervant wrote: post #86

"Cingular has allowed Apple to launch a device with WLAN and inbuilt services" Ugh, that "allowed". It's wild how much Apple shook up the mobile phone market and pushed phone companies back to just being dumb data carriers.

Stuff like this goes back YEARS. Back in the days of the Bell System, the upper management at AT&T believed that it was going to be circuit-switched forever, even as Bell Labs was building packet-switched audio networks and it was becoming clear that packet-switching was a vastly more efficient solution to moving large amounts of mixed data around at a time. The development of efficient switching networks [0] was fun…

Wasnt ISDN still circuit switched?

Re: Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

#463

Post by SSLy »

rawgabbit wrote: post #336
jillesvangurp wrote: post #93

I was there as this played out. Nokia had a lot of good software and software engineers but not the management structure to do anything good with that. Nokia was huge as an organization and parts of that organization recognized the threat early on. The problem was at the board and executive level. These people had a blind spot for software. They thought they were still in the electronics business. Lots of people with…

The presentation is evidence itself that Nokia was bureaucratic and unlikely to stay competitive. The PPT was supposedly about the iPhone but the (well put together) slides for that don't start until page 14. Credit was given to Timo Partanen, along with contributions from Scott Cooper, Gordon Murray-Smith and Sanna Puha. Pages 3 through 11 were market analysis. Boring and irrelevant. The only message that should hav…

BTW, an actual skunk-works project that delivered is the only way that current nokia hasn't collapsed yet again.

Re: Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

#464

Post by stephen_g »

b8 wrote: post #446
jillesvangurp wrote: post #93

I was there as this played out. Nokia had a lot of good software and software engineers but not the management structure to do anything good with that. Nokia was huge as an organization and parts of that organization recognized the threat early on. The problem was at the board and executive level. These people had a blind spot for software. They thought they were still in the electronics business. Lots of people with…

Why didn't Nokia go bankrupt afterwards? They have Bell Labs, but don't make any interesting products.

Nokia has a pretty successful business in things like cellular base stations, carrier networking, etc. - for example they brought their joint venture with Siemens (Nokia Siemens Networks) back in-house by buying Siemens' part out, and that does a lot of optical network stuff (DWDM backhaul equipment, etc), already had a cellular base-station business but then also bought competitor Alcatel Lucent, and a lot of provider network stuff came in with that (like FTTH equipment on the provider side). They also got Alcatel's undersea cable laying division.

So they still have a bunch of valuable and successful businesses even though their consumer business went to crap.

Re: Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

#465

Post by actionfromafar »

alain94040 wrote: post #285
actionfromafar wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I can't find that poem about Elop sinking the Nokia ship or something like that.

This one, the burning platform memo? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32698044

No it was more like a song or poem or Ahab kind of thing.

Re: Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

#466

Post by sgerenser »

venusenvy47 wrote: post #102
anonu wrote: post #29

I was expecting sort of the opposite, for Nokia to deride the whole iPhone thing. But it was quite the opposite, they understand what they were facing. Ultimately, the could not meet the challenge fast enough.

The CTO of Motorola was dismissive of the iPhone in her first review and acted like Apple was a little child just learning how to take its first baby steps. I remember reading this and just shaking my head at her cockiness. She left the company before the year was out. https://web.archive.org/web/20070114215511/https://blogs.mot...

This section: “There is nothing revolutionary or disruptive about any of the technologies. Touch interface, movement sensors, accelerometer, morphing, gesture recognition, 2-megapixel camera, built in MP3 player, WiFi, Bluetooth, are already available in products from leaders in the mobile industry” has to rival “No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.” In the early impressions that didn’t age well category.

Re: Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

#468

Post by indrora »

rasz wrote: post #462
indrora wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stuff like this goes back YEARS. Back in the days of the Bell System, the upper management at AT&T believed that it was going to be circuit-switched forever, even as Bell Labs was building packet-switched audio networks and it was becoming clear that packet-switching was a vastly more efficient solution to moving large amounts of mixed data around at a time. The development of efficient switching networks [0] was fun…

Wasnt ISDN still circuit switched?

Kinda-Sorta. Ish. It's a weird hybrid between circuit and not

Re: Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

#469

Post by fire_lake »

openrisk wrote: post #200
wbl wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the national champions model is the problem. If Apple failed the US still has Android and potentially many other startups. Europe just doesn't have the risk capital or ecosystem.

Yes, but now it doesn't even have national champions. The last one standing with some pretense at being still with the times is probably ASML. One wonders whether at any point anybody will ask any tough questions about where Europe is heading as far as technology goes.

People forget that for a long time ASML was government backed

Re: Nokia's internal presentation after iPhone was launched (2007) [pdf]

#470

Post by tgma »

scarface_74 wrote: post #419
pessimizer wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't read a word about flash in the comment you replied to. They commented on the mention of wallpapers in your comment about flash, but they didn't mention flash at all. What they said is that you believed things that Apple said, that weren't true, about why they wouldn't allow wallpapers. They characterized this as a nitpick.

They never said that about wallpaper. They did say that about Flash - my original comment. And he was proven correct https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughts_on_Flash But back to wallpapers - while the jail breaking community didn’t care, between performance (lot easier to redraw a black background), memory and battery life, background images would have adverse affects on the iPhone. it wasn’t that it couldn’t be don…

> It was so resource constrained that you couldn’t put a picture on your home screen because it would have taken too much memory.

This is the sentence in your original comment I had responded to (and I quoted it in my original comment, not sure where's the misunderstanding here). iPhone was resource-constrained, but not that resource-constrained.

I do agree with your characterization of Flash being slow and clunky at the time for the most part, hence prefacing my comment as "nit," although I do not for one second believe that's the primary reason Jobs killed it. If he wanted a fast Flash, he would have made Adobe dance to his standards.

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