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Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

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381–390 of 660 posts

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#381
post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I should mention that I've seen fairly convincing cross-sectional evidence that homelessness is more related to the housing market than mental illness This is absolutely the right diagnosis. For instance, SROs used to be very affordable.[1] Placing someone into housing was well within the means of local governments and non-profits. In Coppola's 1974 movie The Conversation, a large portion of the titular dialogue is…

Fifty years ago in Ontario, Canada if you were a single adult destitute with no income you would be eligible for general welfare which would pay about $180 a month, when the average rent on 1 bedroom apartment in Toronto was about $150 a month. Today, an adult in the same position gets about $800 while rent is $1300. It used to be possible to afford (slummy) housing at market rates, even for the very poor. Now it is…

It can be viewed as a housing supply issue.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#382
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Homeless people want to live in cities, for all the reasons other people want to live in cities. In cities, affordable housing is extremely expensive. For example, in Santa Monica, California, an affordable housing project can cost over $1 million per unit. https://www.surfsantamonica.com/ssm_site/the_lookout/news/Ne...

They don't cost $1M a unit just because. The article you posted highlights a number of reasons it was as expensive as it was, many of them policy choices that could be undone with the stroke of a pen and a round of votes. There is nothing about building housing in cities that makes it that expensive other than the regulations, many of which could use a re-think or a re-scope. Otherwise, what's Finland's secret? Are t…

Policy of building social housing, well since the war. So there is quite a lot of social housing stock that can work as near last resort. Also generally prices in most areas have not ballooned out of reach.

Being lot smaller helps, but it seems in large town new build pretty close to downtown is 150k€ for tiny apartment(23m^2).

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#383
post #156
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US and Europe have different reasone for homelessnes. Give free houses in US and next day you will have +400mln people from South America. In EU (I can speak for Poland) most homeless have alcohol and violence problems - people removed from homes for domestic violence by court (divorce). You must be quite bad person if no one takes care of you, in a country with a) strong family tights and b) many people owning a hom…

> Give free houses in US and next day you will have +400mln people from South America. I don't know that at all. People in public housing that I know and see are not especially from South America.

yet

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#384
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, yes, it doesn't matter how you distribute money, when there are 9 beds in town, and 10 people, someone's going to be sleeping rough.

This is obviously true, but misses the point Even if there are 10 beds and 10 people, if 9 people can afford to pay 2000 for their beds, and that last one can only afford 500, that last one is still going homeless Because the person selling the last bed is going to want around 2000 for it, just like the other 9 are paying Edit: and no, telling them they have to give up that bed for 500 is not a real option

sufficient vacant property taxes can make it a real option

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#385

The US chooses not to end homelessness. We have the highest GDP in the world. We could end it if we wanted to. I was in Japan recently. A choice was made there as well.

Japan has plenty of homeless people but you don't see them because they're staying in cybercafés.

Is cybercafe free?

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#386

This issue is very relevant for me since I have been homeless since May. It's been a bad run of being a target of criminal activity, unemployment and just running out of money during my job search. I cope with a mix of volunteering, overpriced housing (think $1200/month for a room in a rural area before I ran out of money for that), catsitting, house-sitting, staying with family and sleeping in my ancient car. Althou…

I recently visited Finland (I lived there for 3 years at some point). If you go to Helsinki, there's a shiny new library in the downtown area that is warm, cozy, modern, and has plenty of space for people to work, study, work on art projects, etc. They have books, 3d printers, studios, co-working options, etc.

Anyone is welcome there. Including homeless people, unemployed people. Anyone. You don't see people camping out there (they have other options so they'd be kicked out) but they do provide an environment that welcomes anyone that wants to to come and learn and develop themselves and can behave themselves.

It's a good example of Finnish pragmatism. It might be a bit socialist/idealistic. But it also is a good idea that might actually work. If you find yourself in Helsinki, it's called Oodi and is right next to the train station. Beautiful building. Worth visiting for the architecture alone.

My point here, the Finnish approach is not fighting symptoms but fighting the root causes: mental health, poverty, education, etc. Those things go hand in hand. If you are out of a job, you get poor. If you are not educated, you can't find a job. If you are poor you might develop mental health issues, become homeless, and become even harder to employ, etc. Breaking that cycle is the key. Get people healthy, teach them stuff, house them.

It's a mix of ideology, compassion and pragmatism that drives Finland to do these things. You don't have to buy into the ideology. But most people are not cold sociopaths and are capable of having empathy. Pragmatism is what makes the difference here.

Especially when ideology gets in the way. Which I would say is the main challenge in many harsh, capitalist doctrine dominated societies that are leaving people homless. There's plenty of empathy and charity there but it's mostly limited to giving people access to shelters and soup. People donate but also oppose real solutions. So, things get worse.

Oodi is a pragmatic solution. So is the Finnish way of addressing problems with people being homeless. And realizing that education is part of the problem.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#387
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" does not automatically mean "good, moral, and upstanding lifestyle." To the extent that people have a natural right to exist and society does not I think it should be contingent on administrators to prove the standard they're applying is actually reasonable and non discriminatory.

The standard ought to be they have or imminently are going to harm others. Like actually harm a real victim, criminally by violence or taking property. If they want to live in a gutter worshipping lizard king, well, not everyone has the same idea of the pursuit of happiness.

As a society building a public space, do we not get a say in how it's used? If you cannot find a place to live without blocking a sidewalk, one will be provided for you. That place will not let you take hard drugs indefinitely.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who gets to determine the minimum threshold? And how will they enforce it?

Most people have little to no money, hence being without the ability to afford housing. You’re obviously not familiar with the social security system we have in place now. The only thing lacking is the inspiration to escape that system as Medicaid and social security insurance don’t allow for any savings so participants are frightened to lose the only thing keeping them and their family alive. Provide them with housi…

Just pay them money which they can spend on housing. Either from free market or from social housing. Lot of housing in Finland is run and owned by municipalities and those units are rented just like others. Only the biggest fuckups go into system where money is directly paid to city for the housing.

You do have leeches, but well it is probably lot cheaper in long run than not paying. Like for example my car has never been broken into. And I haven't heard theft being any way rampant.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#389
post #83

This issue is very relevant for me since I have been homeless since May. It's been a bad run of being a target of criminal activity, unemployment and just running out of money during my job search. I cope with a mix of volunteering, overpriced housing (think $1200/month for a room in a rural area before I ran out of money for that), catsitting, house-sitting, staying with family and sleeping in my ancient car. Althou…

The housing situation in Canada is insane and is so obviously due to not building enough housing and bringing too many people into the country via immigration. The fact that it costs 1200$/month for a room in a rural area is incredibly damning. I went to college in Ottawa, and now I live in Austin Texas. It's similar in size, although Austin has been growing more lately. Curiously, they are also both capitols, colleg…

Peak confirmation bias.

The market is correcting from that thing that was in full swing three years ago (the pandemic) and drove prices way up for a number of factors, basically none having to do with construction:

https://www.reddit.com/r/texas/comments/1grxqur/the_austin_t...

The same thing is happening in many cities that do not have the same policies as Travis County.

Re: Finland's zero homeless strategy (2021)

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some US popular culture “drug addict” is code for “weak or immoral person.” There’s very little empathy or understanding of people who are much less fortunate; there’s plenty of evidence in this thread. This misguided moral compass outweighs even sensible practices like harm reduction. People would rather see junkies die on the street of hepatitis than give them free housing and needles. It satisfies some primal n…

[flagged]

You’re not exactly demonstrating your moral strength by calling them parasites
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