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I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

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Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#641

Post by mmooss »

eykanal wrote: post #140
GrantMoyer wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am not planning to get a lawyer involved as I have faith that UW leadership will make it right in the end. All evidence so far indicates they will not make it right, but instead they may make it even worse. Your faith is wildly misplaced. Seriously, talk to a lawyer. Keep in mind, just because you seek advice from a lawyer doesn't mean you need to take legal action against the school. Talking to a lawyer is not a…

Just piling on here because upvotes are not visible. The one thing you can guarantee is that your good faith is not reciprocated by the university. Get a lawyer. To make it easier: it sounds like you're still registered. University of Washington offers Student Legal Services ( https://depts.washington.edu/slsuw/ ). Set up a referral with one of them and talk to them. Even if they're employees of the university and do…

> University of Washington offers Student Legal Services ( https://depts.washington.edu/slsuw/ ).

Do not talk to them. They report to the same people who are persecuting you. Find another attorney - ask someone local for references, maybe a student from the area could ask their parents.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#642

Post by DaSHacka »

mmcwilliams wrote: post #535
DaSHacka wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At my University, scripts like these are pretty much universal. We even have an alumni-run site that scrapes the registration platform's API for the details of every course to provide a better UI interface. It even has a tool to generate an AutoHotkey script so students can insta-register for all their classes seconds after registration opens up for them (it's usually a mad rush at midnight when course registration o…

If the university offers an API then it's not a "scrape". If you're describing unauthorized use of an API then you've disclosed a possible CFAA violation, not web scraping.

I have no idea how they do it, and I don't care if they're breaking the CFAA; Neither are my problem.

Though they do claim to obtain at least some of their information using an API, so if it's the word "scrape" you take issue with in the post, perhaps "queries" is a better fit.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#643

Post by mmooss »

phibz wrote: post #262
ra wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relying on good faith won't help you at all. Someone at the uni has taken this personally, and has attacked you. At this point, if you don't defend yourself - that person has won. Please seek legal advice.

Their response on face value doesn't make sense. But if I had to guess, you inadvertently made someone in the registrar's office look bad. They probably had to answer to "why didn't you think of this?" If that is the case then it makes a lot more sense and is retaliatory behavior. You can't undo their insecurity and loss of face. Therefore you should not expect a reasonable response. Act accordingly. Educate yourself…

> And if you have to walk away it won't hurt you too much in the long term. After about 5 years in industry nearly all companies stop caring about credentials.

That is very wrong, in my experience. Many jobs require college degrees; much status in life requires college degrees. I know people who are smart, successful, and eternally embarrassed when that comes up.

Also, you did the work, you deserve the degree - a college education is a real, valuable thing. Don't let the current anti-intellectual, anti-institutional, anti-liberal trendiness distract you. The trends pass, and decades from now you'll still have a degree and the truths of knowledge will remain.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#644

Post by TimSchumann »

jdkaim wrote: post #7

Update: I immediately took down my class project site after receiving yesterday’s ultimatum. I still don’t think the simple demo site violated the letter or spirit of the registration rules, but I took it down because I always want to operate in good faith. They followed up today to thank me for doing it, but also indicated that they were putting a hold on my account anyway. As a result, I am not going to be able to…

Please retain council.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#645

Post by mmooss »

dzdt wrote: post #437
GrantMoyer wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am not planning to get a lawyer involved as I have faith that UW leadership will make it right in the end. All evidence so far indicates they will not make it right, but instead they may make it even worse. Your faith is wildly misplaced. Seriously, talk to a lawyer. Keep in mind, just because you seek advice from a lawyer doesn't mean you need to take legal action against the school. Talking to a lawyer is not a…

A lawyer is NOT the right next step. As soon as you engage a lawyer the school will switch from treating this as a student policy matter (which will be resolved in a timeline of days) to a legal matter (which will only be resolved in a timeline of years). The timeline question is of no concern to the courts or the school but makes a huge difference to you. It does seem like you need someone on your side. A list of pe…

You can consult a lawyer without having the lawyer engage with the university, and without the unviversity even knowing that you did.

Instead of taking your advice on the matter, maybe see what the lawyer has to say.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#646

Post by potato3732842 »

lolinder wrote: post #578
croemer wrote: post #556

His (presumed) dad commented this on LinkedIn: > I have seen all the emails now and it's as bad as described. I thought there might be some hyperbole but the "University Registrar and Chief Officer of Enrollment Information Services" is clearly saying "work with us to build this for free or you're not graduating". They even specify that he needs to set up the meeting "well before registration opens on February 13th f…

It's worth noting that the dad also gave his son a job at his company while the kid was still in high school. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but it does show that the father is heavily invested in this kid and willing to act affirmatively to give him a leg up, which means I personally would not count this as additional testimony backing up the story. The dad's testimony doesn't make it less likely to be…

> a favor and explain why you disagree

Unrealistic request. 95% of the point of downvoting is to give people the option to do their bit to bury things that they can't logically refute or easily debunk or whatever. The other 5% is spam/troll mitigation.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#647

Post by BizarroLand »

croemer wrote: post #199
jdkaim wrote: post #7

Update: I immediately took down my class project site after receiving yesterday’s ultimatum. I still don’t think the simple demo site violated the letter or spirit of the registration rules, but I took it down because I always want to operate in good faith. They followed up today to thank me for doing it, but also indicated that they were putting a hold on my account anyway. As a result, I am not going to be able to…

One half of me is sympathetic with you, the other wonders whether you're trying to get attention for a job (this is how the end of your LinkedIn post makes it sound). It's hard to judge from the outside as you haven't shared the actual writing from UW. I would probably cut this from the end of the LinkedIn post, this makes you look like you're possibly trying to blow this out of proportion for attention: > I'm schedu…

Washington state (and many others, I'm assuming) have systems in place that allow high school students to take collegiate level classes in lieu of high school classes.

Done to completion, it is possible (and becoming more common) to exit high school with an Associates degree and the first 2 years of college completed.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#648

Post by mmooss »

GordonGaffs wrote: post #276
theturtletalks wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a huge story and if it goes viral, it could put a lot of heat on UW. Write a detailed post on your LinkedIn, Twitter, anywhere that could get the attention of media. Better yet, link your post here and I'd gladly help spread the word. What UW is doing is extortion especially for their fuck-up. Be polite in your post and just write down the facts.

[flagged]

This is very good advice. Human beings tend to overlook, minimize, or just not closely examine their own failings, expecially painful and shameful ones. And then when they tell the story to others, they tend to portray themselves as victims - innocent and persecuted.

But you need to be very careful when you go from telling your friends to making public, consequential, legal moves. Contact a journalist, and they will want to find the whole story, not just your fanciful version. Involve lawyers and the same thing will happen.

Talk to a lawyer first; let them dig in and find the real story; be completely open and honest. Then see where you stand.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#649

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

jasinjames wrote: post #47
theturtletalks wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn't a government agency rendering citizen SSNs client-side and when someone discovered it, they went after them? Wouldn't be surprised if the anti-DRM part of the DMCA is used to persecute these non-crimes.

I think you're thinking of this case [1] from Missouri where a reporter notified the state that teacher SSNs were exposed, and the Governor went ballistic. Luckily, it seems like the local law enforcement set the record straight. [1] https://apnews.com/article/technology-business-crime-educati...

I never figured out if the governor was that inept that he was truly convinced the person was a hacker despite every tech professional's opinion, or if he was merely doubling down on the hacking accusations to try to save face.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#650

Post by potato3732842 »

isotypic wrote: post #157
simonbw wrote: post #91

I went to UW a decade ago, and back then it was pretty common knowledge that you don't fuck with software and the class registration system. Registering for classes was really competitive and they were really strict about making sure that no one had an edge over anyone else by being able to write code. There were plenty of rumors of people being expelled for using scripts to try to get the classes they wanted right w…

I am somewhat surprised issues of scripting and trading even exist in the registration system. Staggering enrollment times over a few days, with new waves every 20 minutes or so, mostly solves scripting issues since you are only competing with a fraction of the student body now. Giving courses waitlists once they are full, instead of allowing people to just directly register once a spot frees up, makes trading imposs…

Punishing people is easy. Changing process is hard, especially when you're a dysfunctional bureaucracy.
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