I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled • Hacker News Board

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#511

Post by pc86 » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 5:00 PM UTC

93po wrote: post #503

pc86 wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High-demand classes are bi-modal. The left side of the distribution is the low-level intro and survey courses. I went to a very heavily pre-med undergrad with a total enrollment of about 1,500 where the intro Chemistry course had two 100-150-person survey courses with multiple TAs. Charging more for these is pretty stupid. The answer is to offer more of them if you have the physical space, the professor(s), and the T…

god forbid schools get more desirable instructors when, in a class of 100 students, they're getting paid close to $200k in revenue if they're charging $600 per credit hour, which is on the low side, and making hundreds of millions per year off of endowment investments

You'll get no argument from me on higher ed misspending the majority of their funds. You could remove 80% of all US higher ed administration from the workforce forever and I'm convinced there would be no noticeable negative impact on the economy. IMO it's one of the careers with the largest gap between how important the people in it think they are vs. how much of a real impact they actually have.

I was just pointing out that there are two competing reasons why classes end up with long waitlists or people who graduate having never had the chance to take them so it's not a simple "Do _________" and it's fixed.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#512

Post by buildbot » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 5:04 PM UTC

Spivak wrote: post #432

_yb2s wrote: post #410

This does not add up- this is your last term but you’ve only been there a year and a half? The university, who presumably has a professional engineering team making these systems is trying to blackmail an undergrad to reproduce something for free that they also wanted shut down? And you’re marketing this on linkedin in the context of asking for job offers?

Probably a transfer, but lol at professional engineering team. Zero chance. The resignation system is probably outsourced to at best some edu-tech company and at worst is basically the most cursed Sharepoint site that's ever existed.

It’s all in house, UW IT has multiple floors in a 20+ floor building, literally the tallest until very recently in the UW neighborhood.

The registration system is probably mostly still the original 90s code though, it’s very basic, totally custom.

UW CSE actually had its own tech support team, completely separate from UW IT, who also write internal software/manage the computing systems just for CSE. At least, that used to be the case.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#513

Post by dehrmann » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 5:04 PM UTC

eru wrote: post #175

dylan604 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once lawyers are involved, they are always going to be the only winners.

What makes you think so?

Ever get a $5 settlement check from a class action?

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#514

Post by radlad » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 5:14 PM UTC

morgango wrote: post #505

jdkaim wrote: post #7

Update: I immediately took down my class project site after receiving yesterday’s ultimatum. I still don’t think the simple demo site violated the letter or spirit of the registration rules, but I took it down because I always want to operate in good faith. They followed up today to thank me for doing it, but also indicated that they were putting a hold on my account anyway. As a result, I am not going to be able to…

Please don't listen to all of these folks who are trying to bring conflict into your life. You did something interesting, and learned a lesson about how big institutions actually work. It is a great story, and one that you can tell your friends. The easiest path forward is to do what it takes to graduate, it sounds like you are one quarter away. Smile, play nice, help out where you can. Get everything in writing. Def…

There is already conflict in his life at this point. The question is how best to resolve it. The school is in a position of authority and is telling the student that after spending tens of thousands of dollars at his school, he can't register for his final quarter necessary to graduate, unless he provides additional free work for them. This absolutely should not be tolerated.

Everyone in this thread is simply suggesting he talk to a lawyer. The lawyer can help guide him on the next action to take.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#515

Post by cafard » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 5:15 PM UTC

turbojet1321 wrote: post #139

impendia wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a university professor, and this is batshit crazy. Who ? As in not "they" or "the university", but who within the university? Can you tell where the directive is coming from? If this comes from, say, the Provost's Office then this probably can't be handled internally. (The position of Provost is the #2 position at a university, and the provost usually runs the show while the President or Chancellor goes schmoozin…

The head coach of football gets paid $4mil a year (4x the president) and is the highest payed employee. The top 7 staff are all sports related. Is this, like, common in the US? It seems batshit insane to an outsider.

Yes, and not just at public universities.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#516

Post by MattyRad » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 5:17 PM UTC

Everyone is saying lawyer up like it's the author's only option, but it's not, and likely bad advice. Here's the order of operations I would take:

1. Mea Culpa

Talk to all of the faculty (dean of students, etc) and do your best to get people on your side. You need the petty person on the other end to reverse their decision, and having a lot of administration on your side, and more importantly, expressing (fake) remorse makes it easy for these jobsworth asshole(s) to fulfill their God complex. I'm actually convinced that this would have the highest probability of success. These Dolores Umbridge types adore getting to be the ones issuing mercy to the sinners.

Additionally, informing staff of the expulsion will help bring awareness of this abuse, and spread the word and prevent this from happening to other students.

While you perform your mea culpa groveling, record everything, which can be used as ammo later.

2. Agree to the (illegal) terms

Blackmailing you into slave labor is obviously illegal, but no terms have been laid out, so I don't see any harm in agreeing to them. Best case, they reverse the decision with the expectation that you'll do something (which you can then phone in or do a token exercise of), and worst case they outline terms which are the perfect ammo for negative publicity or a lawsuit.

3. Transfer schools/credits

I don't actually know what is involved in transferring schools or how expulsion factors in, but the reality is that you are effectively already expelled. Try and figure out the feasibility of saving what is salvageable at a school that is less insufferable.

4. Negative publicity

This story is easy to believe, sell, and consume- i.e. perfect ragebait. Start emailing every news outlet you can think of. Post on all social media. If it gets high enough, and probably not even that high, the weight of the negative publicity can easily outweigh the narcissists that started this, forcing a reversal.

5. Seek employment

If you have any employment cards in your deck, I'd consider playing them. If everything else fails, then at least you're financially secure and gain experience.

6. Lawyer

The combined weight of all of the above will assist a lawsuit, even prior to taking any legal steps. Note that all outcomes of a lawsuit that aren't "total win" are effectively a loss (of time, money, energy, and mental health), so I'd hesitate to take this course at all.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#517

Post by GuB-42 » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 5:22 PM UTC

MattyRad wrote: post #516

Everyone is saying lawyer up like it's the author's only option, but it's not, and likely bad advice. Here's the order of operations I would take: 1. Mea Culpa Talk to all of the faculty (dean of students, etc) and do your best to get people on your side. You need the petty person on the other end to reverse their decision, and having a lot of administration on your side, and more importantly, expressing (fake) remor…

No one is suggesting to sue. The suggestion is to get advise from a professional, i.e. a lawyer rather to listen to random people on the internet. A lawsuit may or may not follow.

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#518

Post by renewiltord » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 5:23 PM UTC

jermaustin1 wrote: post #471

diggan wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know for a fact that I and dozens of other students would have happily paid hundreds of dollars to use your project Is this normal in the US, that students have high enough disposable income that they would be able to pay "hundreds of dollars" to use a webapp to swap classes with each other? Or is this school uniquely one for the more well-off kids out there? Remembering my time when my friends were in university…

My sister-in-law is going back for her masters right now. She did the maximum allowed loans from her FAFSA, so after her tuition and fees were paid, she had enough left over to draw a $300/wk "salary" from the remaining balance. She has to pay her rent and groceries and other bills from that, but she usually has about $100 a month left over for "fun" - if she lived in a cheaper apartment or took out additional loans,…

Wait, why would anyone do this, though? It’s like taking a personal loan from the government that is non-dischargeable in bankruptcy. The interest is going to accrue every year you go to uni.

If you use that to go long on the stock market, I get it since the S&P500 beats interest rates right now, though there’s a risk. Using it on personal expenses seems like the lowest EV choice!

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#519

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 5:24 PM UTC

isotypic wrote: post #157

simonbw wrote: post #91

I went to UW a decade ago, and back then it was pretty common knowledge that you don't fuck with software and the class registration system. Registering for classes was really competitive and they were really strict about making sure that no one had an edge over anyone else by being able to write code. There were plenty of rumors of people being expelled for using scripts to try to get the classes they wanted right w…

I am somewhat surprised issues of scripting and trading even exist in the registration system. Staggering enrollment times over a few days, with new waves every 20 minutes or so, mostly solves scripting issues since you are only competing with a fraction of the student body now. Giving courses waitlists once they are full, instead of allowing people to just directly register once a spot frees up, makes trading imposs…

[deleted]

Re: I had to take down my course-swapping site or be expelled

#520

Post by teeray » Thu, Jan 09, 2025, 5:30 PM UTC

jdkaim wrote: post #7

Update: I immediately took down my class project site after receiving yesterday’s ultimatum. I still don’t think the simple demo site violated the letter or spirit of the registration rules, but I took it down because I always want to operate in good faith. They followed up today to thank me for doing it, but also indicated that they were putting a hold on my account anyway. As a result, I am not going to be able to…

> have been de facto expelled at the end of this quarter. Unless, that is, I agree to work on a comparable solution for the university

Not a lawyer, but this is outrageous and feels like a breach of the university-student contract. Point to the other students that must perform surprise labor for the university as a precondition for course registration. This is like paying your debt to the early 1900s company store. Absolutely lawyer up.