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Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

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131–140 of 397 posts

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#131
post #60
post #39

Interesting. I think folks in the comments here maybe missed this paper is way more about the beverages part making it important. The research is around sugar sweetened beverages (SSBs). If I'm reading it right, the SSBs have a differentmetabolic effect. "Due to their liquid form, SSBs are rapidly consumed and digested, resulting in lower satiety, higher caloric intake and weight gain. High doses of rapidly digested…

About 15 years ago, I stopped drinking soda. Not out of a desire to be healthy or loose weight but simply because it dawned on me that for the same amount of sugar in one soft drink that I drink without any afterthought, I could enjoy a really good pastry that I can slowly savor. I do the same for fats. The way I look at it, I want to maximize the "enjoyment per kcalorie". :) More recently, I'm starting to apply this…

Good for you.

I think for meat especially, there's a difference between the stuff people talk about (like premium steaks they almost never eat) and the reality of what ends up on their plates which is a lot less glamorous.

A typical fast food burger just isn't that great in terms of texture, taste, looks, etc. and IMHO almost always disappointingly unsatisfying and slightly uncomfortable afterwards. I'll eat that once in a while; usually because there's nothing more convenient and never because I crave one. For me the cheap and nasty stuff is easy to skip on a daily basis and it's not like I eat the expensive premium stuff that often anyway. I love a good steak, but I don't splurge on paying 3x the other items on the menu when I'm at a restaurant typically. Which is what it takes typically to get a nice premium cut of meat.

I do enjoy cooking with meat but I'll make an effort to make the most of it. E.g. I made a nice beef stew over the weekend. That's a bit of of work and a humble/affordable cut of meat. And very tasty.

If you like Indian food, try having or making a dal. As it turns out, Indians know a thing or two about making very tasty vegan food from cheap/simple ingredients. And this can as nice as some chicken curry with a few chunks of cheap chicken that is maybe a bit overcooked and dry (I've been served that in many Indian restaurants). Those curries actually still taste fine if you don't eat those chunks of meat. And the whole point of heavy spicing in countries with warm climates like India was historically to mask the flavor of cheap cuts of meat that were maybe a bit past their prime. Which is possibly also a reason why vegan food is popular in India. Fridges are a fairly recent novelty too.

And the meat doesn't even add a lot of flavor; they just add it last minute typically. Lots of Indian restaurants usually have vegan or vegetarian versions of most of their curries where they toss in some tofu or paneer instead of meat. The only difference between eating meat or vegan in such places is literally what protein is added to the dish at the last minute. The rest is basically vegan or vegetarian by default.

Anyway, I skip sugary drinks mostly. And I've cut down on my alcohol intake as well. Most of what I drink has basically very little or no calories.

Most of my remaining food challenges are unhealthy snacks, unnecessary carbs and the temptations of unhealthy restaurant food, or late night shopping in super markets and the associated bad decision making.

Restaurants bulk out their dishes with carbs and they make things taste good by adding salt and fats. It's hard to eat healthy in restaurants. So, I try to limit my restaurant food intake. And like with meat, most of the restaurants people visit aren't actually that great anyway. At least where I work, Michelin stars are not a thing for the typical lunch options. Quite the opposite actually. I'm only an OK cook but I can cook tastier/better versions of a lot of the shit I get served in places like that. It's not that hard.

I recently actually started just skipping lunch entirely at work mainly for this reason and I'm training myself out of having a Pavlovian craving for food just because the clock says so. I don't actually need the calories. Or the post lunch dip in productivity. I especially don't need the lousy food choices imposed by that one person that wants to go to the burger place. There's a lot of group thinking inspiring unhealthy choices around lunch time. I took part in that for years. It's stupid when you think about it and I've suffered the health consequences as well. There's a cumulative effect if you do that for a few decades.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#132

I'd bet a dollar per gram additive sugar tax in excess of 5g would immediately flatten the chronic disease curve. Maybe double that if it's marketed towards kids. There are a lot of problems besides sugar/HFCS but it's easily towards the top of the list.

You want a can of Coke to cost $35?

In Berkeley we have a 1¢ per fl. oz. soda tax and it cut soda sales by over 20%.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5024386/

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#133
post #126
post #39

Interesting. I think folks in the comments here maybe missed this paper is way more about the beverages part making it important. The research is around sugar sweetened beverages (SSBs). If I'm reading it right, the SSBs have a differentmetabolic effect. "Due to their liquid form, SSBs are rapidly consumed and digested, resulting in lower satiety, higher caloric intake and weight gain. High doses of rapidly digested…

Orange juice is high in sugars. Drinking any alternative beverage with a lot of sugar is bad for your health. I believe a 12 ounce glass of orange juice is 100% of maximum sugar intake for one day. If you drank orange juice the same way you drank soda with added sugar, the health effect would be equally detrimental.

I think citric acid is better than phosphoric acid (e.g. for your bones and kidneys), though both can dissolve tooth enamel.

OJ also has more vitamin C than typical sodas.

Milk has more calories/ounce than soda, but it also has protein, fat, and calcium.

Anecdotally, I find juice more filling than soda, milk even more so.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#135
post #39

Interesting. I think folks in the comments here maybe missed this paper is way more about the beverages part making it important. The research is around sugar sweetened beverages (SSBs). If I'm reading it right, the SSBs have a differentmetabolic effect. "Due to their liquid form, SSBs are rapidly consumed and digested, resulting in lower satiety, higher caloric intake and weight gain. High doses of rapidly digested…

Soft drinks tend to be much higher in sugar per ounce, roughly double. A 12 ounce can of coke has 39 grams, so you blow past that at around 4 ounces.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#136
post #126
post #39

Interesting. I think folks in the comments here maybe missed this paper is way more about the beverages part making it important. The research is around sugar sweetened beverages (SSBs). If I'm reading it right, the SSBs have a differentmetabolic effect. "Due to their liquid form, SSBs are rapidly consumed and digested, resulting in lower satiety, higher caloric intake and weight gain. High doses of rapidly digested…

Orange juice is high in sugars. Drinking any alternative beverage with a lot of sugar is bad for your health. I believe a 12 ounce glass of orange juice is 100% of maximum sugar intake for one day. If you drank orange juice the same way you drank soda with added sugar, the health effect would be equally detrimental.

> the health effect would be equally detrimental.

From the article:

> High doses of rapidly digested glucose also activate insulin and other regulatory pathways...

Orange Soda (i.e. Fanta), an SSB, and Orange Juice have glycemic indexes of about 68 and 48 respectively. I assume that's a material difference in that OJ doesn't spike your insulin as abruptly and therefore is not as harmful. Thre's more to it than simply grams of sugar.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#137
post #60
post #39

Interesting. I think folks in the comments here maybe missed this paper is way more about the beverages part making it important. The research is around sugar sweetened beverages (SSBs). If I'm reading it right, the SSBs have a differentmetabolic effect. "Due to their liquid form, SSBs are rapidly consumed and digested, resulting in lower satiety, higher caloric intake and weight gain. High doses of rapidly digested…

About 15 years ago, I stopped drinking soda. Not out of a desire to be healthy or loose weight but simply because it dawned on me that for the same amount of sugar in one soft drink that I drink without any afterthought, I could enjoy a really good pastry that I can slowly savor. I do the same for fats. The way I look at it, I want to maximize the "enjoyment per kcalorie". :) More recently, I'm starting to apply this…

> About 15 years ago, I stopped drinking soda. Not out of a desire to be healthy or loose weight[...]

Same thing happened to me at probably around the same time. I realized I could just have a lollypop, and it would be a tenth of the sugar. Most of the sweetness in soda doesn't even get a chance to touch your tongue before it's going down your throat. If I want candy, I should just have a piece of candy. If I'm thirsty, I should have a glass of water.

Also, the carbonation in soda enables them to get twice the sugar into it. Drinking a flat soda is like drinking maple syrup.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#138

It's good to see more studies come on this but it's not exactly news. Researchers have known for quite some time now that there's an entire constellation of diseases (diabetes, stroke, certain cancers, fatty liver disease, heart disease, etc, etc) known as metabolic syndrome that are all caused by diet and lifestyle.

That is true but I think emphasizing liquid sugar is particularly important. When I was young I tried to bulk (for sports) several times and ate an obscene amount of carbohydrates and protein, think like 8 hot dogs and half a gallon of milk for lunch... roughly 4k calories a day of carbs/protein/fat.

I never got past 220. I would get terrible heartburn and bloating and be too full to eat enough, 220 seemed to be about the max my body could obtain without severe discomfort. It always made me wonder how people get up into the 300+ range. Liquified sugar seems like the only food that your body can process efficiently enough to get you into those massive weight categories.

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take it you haven’t tried a nice ripe mango from subtropical regions, or a pineapple, white grapes (or grape juice), watermelon, navel oranges? They can be sweeter than Dr. Pepper. Sugarcane also exists and you can chew it. They just tended to 1) come with fiber, 2) not be as easy to acquire or eat in large quantities 3) not available all year, or all at once

This is nonsense: 100g of mango has 14g of sugar 100g of watermelon has 6.2g of sugar 100g of navel orange has 12g of sugar 100g of sugar has 100g of sugar, 1 can of Dr Pepper has 40g of sugar It's both pure sugar AND more sugar. You have to eat more than half a pound of mango to get to the same sugar as a Dr Pepper.

Why you switched from grams to cans when compared to Dr Pepper? A can of Dr Pepper is 350 ml, so about 350 g. Therefore:

100 g of Dr. Pepper has 11g of sugar

Re: Type 2 Diabetes and cardiovascular disease attributable to sugar beverages

#140
post #90
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One of the reasons that we don't have Universal Healthcare in the US is that things that are categorically unhealthy would be prohibited from being sold. Afterall, it would benefit not only the receivers of care but also the people funding the healthcare system. The sellers of those things will fight (to their death) to prevent that environment from existing. Perhaps you’re implying something unique about the US, b…

This argument by massive processed food industries, that if we get Universal Healthcare, that their products and practices will be curtailed because it will be for the actual monetary public good says nothing about what is sold in countries with public healthcare. Are you saying that corporate processed food manufacturers are not making that statement? Clearly there is a problem with soda consumption leading to obesi…

> Are you saying that corporate processed food manufacturers are not making that statement?

No. I have no knowledge of what statements such manufacturers are or are not making.

However, your original post said “One of the reasons that we don't have Universal Healthcare in the US is that things that are categorically unhealthy would be prohibited from being sold.” This phrasing implies that the statement is true, or at least you believe it to be true. So it seemed relevant to offer a counter-example.

Even if you had originally said “corporate processed food manufacturers claim their products will be curtailed and lobby heavily on this point,” I think it would still be useful to point out that such claims are highly likely to be false given past experience in other countries.

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