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China is the manufacturing superpower

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Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#241

Post by wiseowise »

Barrin92 wrote: post #214
wiseowise wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody's ever bought an iphone for Apple Maps, everyone runs around with Google software on their phone. It is still running on Apple platform. I'm buying an iPhone, because I know that I'll get consistent Apple experience that is same across all of my devices, unlike zoo of Android + Windows/Linux.

What does that mean? There's no consistent Apple experience across Spotify, Venmo, TikTok and Facebook. There's pretty consistent experiences within these apps across devices , which is what people care about. Nobody cares about their operating system except for that one middle aged developer who loves that his apps look native on his macbook. But that's not why people buy phones.

If that was the case, then Android would have bigger share in developed countries.

> Nobody cares about their operating system except for that one middle aged developer who loves that his apps look native on his macbook.

Nobody* cares.

* - 34% desktop share and 15% worldwide.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#242

Post by slaw »

manishader wrote: post #127
Hilift wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some manufacturing is down. Look at the state of sophisticated shipbuilding. The US Navy has stated numerous times that the US essentially has minimal capacity. Maintenance and construction are years behind schedule. It isn't about funding. 40% of attack submarines aren't fit for service or deployable. The new Columbia class submarine will use a new steam turbine. Northrup Grumman was selected for the manufacture of…

There is also the USS Zumwalt type problem. We spent $22.5 billion to get two active. Imagine what $22.5 billion USD buys in Chinese manufacturing capacity.

$22.5 billion would be 2 million Teslas Y, but from BYD.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#243

Post by serpix »

wiseowise wrote: post #201
_7acn wrote: post #178

I remember how until quite recently, the West viewed the East, particularly China, as a backward region. People would even dismissively use the term 'Chinese junk'. In a remarkably short time, that perception has completely flipped. Now it's the West that seems to be falling behind...

> People would even dismissively use the term 'Chinese junk' I still do. Amazon in Europe is completely filled with Chinese junk, it's nigh impossible to find anything EU/US produced in certain categories. It became Alibaba with markup.

There is no EU/US equivalent to many products. We simply don't make things.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#244

Post by slaw »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #238
soramimo wrote: post #108

And unfortunately for the West, manufacturing capacity translates to military capability in any prolonged conflict (which is why industrial policy and tariffs in dual use / strategic industries seem like the way to go)

you can't look at "Manufacturing" and translate that to military capability. what you manufacture is very important. Nothing china has can compete with the airpower capabilities of the west. A single F35 has the capabilities no amount of chinese planes can match.

J-20 vs F-35

https://simpleflying.com/china-j-20-vs-us-f-35-evaluating-mo...

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#245

Post by Barrin92 »

wiseowise wrote: post #241
Barrin92 wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does that mean? There's no consistent Apple experience across Spotify, Venmo, TikTok and Facebook. There's pretty consistent experiences within these apps across devices , which is what people care about. Nobody cares about their operating system except for that one middle aged developer who loves that his apps look native on his macbook. But that's not why people buy phones.

If that was the case, then Android would have bigger share in developed countries. > Nobody cares about their operating system except for that one middle aged developer who loves that his apps look native on his macbook. Nobody* cares. * - 34% desktop share and 15% worldwide.

>If that was the case, then Android would have bigger share in developed countries.

How does that follow? I'm saying people buy Apple products for their premium hardware, which rich consumers are more likely to do across all categories. If software mattered, Apple would be losing customers across the board because people spend more and more time in non-Apple software. It's the exact opposite of my claim.

>* - 34% desktop share and 15% worldwide.

I don't think you even understood what I said to be frank, I didn't argue Apple's marketshare, we are talking about where the value in their poduct is, I didn't argue that people dislike their products.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#246

Post by bigfatkitten »

defrost wrote: post #82
creato wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could process it themselves and consume or export those higher value materials

See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42593404 Australia itself doesn't have the demand for that much steel internally - China does (and exports its excess production).

> China does (and exports its excess production).

With no small amount of it exported to Australia.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#247

Post by nimish »

csomar wrote: post #57

One thing people are not aware of and am curious of how big it really is: China manufacturing laundry. Essentially, goods are manufactured in China, then laundered to a third-party country and then exported to the US/EU. This come in two flavors, legal laundry where the local manufacturer satisfies the conditions; and illegal one where bribes are paid to pass goods. > https://antidumping.vn/eu-chinabike-duty-hits-ind…

CKD/SKD is the legal version of this tactic. It's not new. It's a great way to get around tariffs though!

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#248

Post by DanielHB »

csomar wrote: post #57

One thing people are not aware of and am curious of how big it really is: China manufacturing laundry. Essentially, goods are manufactured in China, then laundered to a third-party country and then exported to the US/EU. This come in two flavors, legal laundry where the local manufacturer satisfies the conditions; and illegal one where bribes are paid to pass goods. > https://antidumping.vn/eu-chinabike-duty-hits-ind…

It is not much different from all the European, US and Japan car companies do in Brazil. Brazil has high tariffs (for pretty much everything imported) so companies set up local factories to make the goods. Thing is those factories are not factories, they are assembly lines, minimal amount of engineering or even manufacturing happens there. The only big difference is that those goods are kept internally in the Brazilian market, they are not re-exported out as far as I am aware.

Apple also has a factory in Brazil that makes most (all?) of iphones and ipads sold in Brazil. Most appliances companies (Bosch, Eletrolux, etc) in the local market also do the same.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#249

Post by cman1444 »

kayewiggin wrote: post #98
csomar wrote: post #57

One thing people are not aware of and am curious of how big it really is: China manufacturing laundry. Essentially, goods are manufactured in China, then laundered to a third-party country and then exported to the US/EU. This come in two flavors, legal laundry where the local manufacturer satisfies the conditions; and illegal one where bribes are paid to pass goods. > https://antidumping.vn/eu-chinabike-duty-hits-ind…

There's not too much fake origin stuff from Vietnam to US, which is the largest SEA country exporting to US. "However, new research from Harvard Business School and Duke University paints a more nuanced picture — rerouting appears to be lower than is imagined. While trade rerouting through Vietnam does occur, its scale appears far smaller than previously thought. The study found that in 2021, about 16.1 per cent of V…

What I wonder is:

Of the items that are rerouted, does Vietnam (or other similar countries) tend to move up the value chain over time? Or do the supply chains just stay as they are.

I suspect, possibly hopefully, that over time the "rerouting" countries would evolve from simple assembly/repackaging to sourcing more granular pieces of the manufacturing process from within their own borders. How fast that might happen is another question.

If anyone has any sources on this I would love to read more about it, I'm just not sure how to find them.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#250

Post by sangnoir »

obscurette wrote: post #228

It's not about what China did well, but about Europe/US ignorance. How many times you've heard during last decade that software eats the world? That we should do highly profitable software things only anyway? That everyone and his dog should be a software engineer in future? Well, turned out that it was really about free money and it didn't last. Serious question – how many of you who say that they can't find the job…

> how many of you who say that they can't find the job any more, have considered manufacturing?

If one wants a skilled job in manufacturing, they have to earn a qualification first, or go through a period of apprenticeship. The wages for most manufacturing jobs are much lower in the west than for knowledge workers, and openings likely fewer - it's only recently that new manufacturing sites got spun-up after decades of continuous decline- thanks to 2 pieces of legislation from the Biden administration; the Inflation Reduction Act and the CHIPS Act

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