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China is the manufacturing superpower

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Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#231

Post by seanmcdirmid »

phkahler wrote: post #217
chvid wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One example is what you seem to refer to; a solar panel reading made in Vietnam - assembled in Vietnam but by a Chinese owned company with all Chinese components. Another example is the iPhone reading made in China with a dollar value of 400 but the true value add in China is much lower as all the IP, profit margins, and high value components belong somewhere else. This means that even though these numbers look very…

iPhone chips are made in Taiwan. The displays are certainly not made in the US although the glass might be.

iPhone displays are most definitely made in South Korea. Some of the components are made in Japan as well, not much is made in the USA beyond the software stack (which you are also most definitely paying for since SWEs aren’t cheap!). Also iPhones are made in SEZs (none of the components are tariffed in these zones), so they are tariffed when imported into China.

I doubt Trump tariffs will be based on value add. It would be a logistical nightmare, and he doesn’t strike me as someone who thinks too deeply about these things.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#232

Post by Der_Einzige »

_7acn wrote: post #178

I remember how until quite recently, the West viewed the East, particularly China, as a backward region. People would even dismissively use the term 'Chinese junk'. In a remarkably short time, that perception has completely flipped. Now it's the West that seems to be falling behind...

When did this flip?

What do the Chinese make in high quality besides silk, EVs, and Orwellian tyranny?

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#233

Post by mahirsaid »

bilbo0s wrote: post #153
PittleyDunkin wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chinese loanmaking to foreign countries has mostly gone bust, with many loans basically in default. As America (or the world bank/imf as a proxy for american capital) can attest, calling in these loans is a great way to make a lot of enemies.

The problem in China's case, is that there's a lot of evidence that China doesn't even care whether or not it's paid back. One, the loans were given often in dollars. Which China found itself with a surplus of the past few decades. With no convenient way of ridding themselves of those dollars without significant pain, Chinese strategists hit on the brilliant plan of "loans". Two, and more importantly, the loans were…

This would have been my response to the this ^ reply. They have capital to spare and also, what they're gaining from these countries in return more than justifies there loss in capital. the gain exclusive rights to ports and military presence. recently they made a an effort to include African countries as their allies. Concluding that they will allow African countries to retain control over there capital wand profits while allowing china to export their natural resources. this is attractive for African nations.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#234

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Barrin92 wrote: post #214
wiseowise wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody's ever bought an iphone for Apple Maps, everyone runs around with Google software on their phone. It is still running on Apple platform. I'm buying an iPhone, because I know that I'll get consistent Apple experience that is same across all of my devices, unlike zoo of Android + Windows/Linux.

What does that mean? There's no consistent Apple experience across Spotify, Venmo, TikTok and Facebook. There's pretty consistent experiences within these apps across devices , which is what people care about. Nobody cares about their operating system except for that one middle aged developer who loves that his apps look native on his macbook. But that's not why people buy phones.

People buy phones for good stable experiences. I’m not sure how it was today, but it was a mess 10 years ago outside of iPhones, and some people would rather pay more for a phone than bother with something by that requires more involvement.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#235

Post by mahirsaid »

audunw wrote: post #179
smcl wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everyone arguing the point that china cant overtake U.S. in economy Surely nobody halfway serious is arguing that. The faction about to take power in the USA is tilting at the "woke ideology" windmill, talks openly of deporting a big chunk of the workforce and does not seem to understand how tariffs work. Even if you ignore all that, China has 4-5x the population (for now!) and is by all measures has a highly devel…

Chinas total population isn’t really that relevant for what their economy will end up looking like. China is essentially a handful of moderately wealthy coastal areas (perhaps comparable to USA in population but still far behind in GDP/capita) and a huge inland area of very poor people. There’s not much reason to think all those 100s of millions of people will become as wealthy as the average American or European any…

This will balance its self out. One thing they have we don't is monopoly control they allow you to have monopoly if it serves well. we have that but we turn on monopolies when they get too big, they were already too big when they attached the name monopoly to the big players. i suspect if we look at data going back thirty years you will see the gap far bigger and now the gap is rather widening or growing with each end of the gap getting thicker. what i mean is, the poor were really really poor and now we can look at data and say that they are just poor with avenues of fixing that issues. They do have the economies within their country to fix poverty as its far more fruitful versus the U.S.. you either work in fast food or have a masters degree making $70,000. this isn't great considering the U.S. is a rich country

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#236

Post by mahirsaid »

rkancv wrote: post #138
mahirsaid wrote: post #73

this is amazing and filled with facts that i wish everyone arguing the point that china cant overtake U.S. in economy or world superpowers would read. The facts are there, there is not much hiding around the corner, all of the true indication is in front of us. Yes. the article states U.S. still holds the title for world superpower by military size and capabilities. That's not to say that china cant catch up in no ti…

Yes, China engages diplomatically and financially with countries that the U.S. fought and then leaves. Since the withdrawal from Afghanistan of course China appeared instantly: https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/mining-influence-chin... Now the U.S. is fighting for minerals in Ukraine. Rare moment of truth by Senator Graham: https://responsiblestatecraft.org/lindsey-graham-ukraine/ This of course could have been…

and now Russia (Russia takes step towards recognizing Afghanistan's Taliban government) https://www.reuters.com/world/russia-takes-step-towards-reco...

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#237

Post by mahirsaid »

bobthepanda wrote: post #102
mahirsaid wrote: post #73

this is amazing and filled with facts that i wish everyone arguing the point that china cant overtake U.S. in economy or world superpowers would read. The facts are there, there is not much hiding around the corner, all of the true indication is in front of us. Yes. the article states U.S. still holds the title for world superpower by military size and capabilities. That's not to say that china cant catch up in no ti…

I don’t think it’s necessarily so clear that Chinese foreign policy has really paid off yet. Chinese loanmaking to foreign countries has mostly gone bust, with many loans basically in default. While it’s true that Western development agencies were not lending to these projects, they mostly weren’t doing so because they were doubtful of the business cases of said projects and the likelihood that the government could a…

Also don't forget U.S. debt to China. the picture is painted clear of who depends on who.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#238

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo »

soramimo wrote: post #108

And unfortunately for the West, manufacturing capacity translates to military capability in any prolonged conflict (which is why industrial policy and tariffs in dual use / strategic industries seem like the way to go)

you can't look at "Manufacturing" and translate that to military capability. what you manufacture is very important. Nothing china has can compete with the airpower capabilities of the west. A single F35 has the capabilities no amount of chinese planes can match.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#239

Post by Yeul »

smcl wrote: post #91
mahirsaid wrote: post #73

this is amazing and filled with facts that i wish everyone arguing the point that china cant overtake U.S. in economy or world superpowers would read. The facts are there, there is not much hiding around the corner, all of the true indication is in front of us. Yes. the article states U.S. still holds the title for world superpower by military size and capabilities. That's not to say that china cant catch up in no ti…

> everyone arguing the point that china cant overtake U.S. in economy Surely nobody halfway serious is arguing that. The faction about to take power in the USA is tilting at the "woke ideology" windmill, talks openly of deporting a big chunk of the workforce and does not seem to understand how tariffs work. Even if you ignore all that, China has 4-5x the population (for now!) and is by all measures has a highly devel…

This so much. If America was serious about fighting China they would be signing free trade agreements with Asian countries and investing money into Africa.

Instead Trump is angrily tweeting about how he's going to make everyone pay. The racist isolationists are back in the halls of power.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#240

Post by AnthonyMouse »

whimsicalism wrote: post #207
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #163

The premise that China does around a third of the world's manufacturing isn't really that surprising, they have more than a sixth of the world's population and there are a lot of areas (e.g. India and Africa) that have large populations and a disproportionately small share of manufacturing. The real problem isn't that it's a third, it's that it will be something like 2% of commercial aircraft and 98% of PCs, and then…

give me an example good where china has 98% share

You can find threads where people are asking for laptops that aren't made in China and the responses end up being things like "well some of those are made in Taiwan" or "this one is made of components from China but the final screw is tightened in the US for labeling reasons".
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