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China is the manufacturing superpower

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211–220 of 315 posts

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're speaking my language. Incentive-based programming of behavior drives optimization for rewards. For example, giant anticompetitive firms dominating our economies create corporate environments that shape executives to prioritize short-term profits by exploiting their undue influence to inflate their own compensation. This behavior depletes natural wealth, sacrifices long-term opportunities to more competitive fi…

I feel like the biggest problems are legislative incompetence and corruption. You have people proposing laws without considering how people will respond to them, or choosing a "compromise" authored by the perpetrators of the original offense. People say things like "corporate profits are too high, we need to tax them more" but the actual reasons corporate profits are high are lax antitrust enforcement and regulatory…

I actually wrote an article that you might be interested in. It connects competition policy, market power, and social unrest. If you’re interested, feel free to take a look -- I’d be happy to hear your thoughts. https://thecommongoodchronicles.substack.com/p/an-assassinat...

Higher taxes for the absurdly rich/corporations could be a good start if the money was put to good use, but taxes ultimately don't solve the underlying issue.

I agree that the core issue is antitrust policy -- and it doesn't have to be this way and wasn't always like this. After the Great Depression, antitrust enforcement ushered in an economic golden age during the 1950s and 60s, boosting prosperity across all socioeconomic groups and lifting lower-income groups the fastest by enhancing competition and preventing concentrations of market power.

Later, regulators embraced 'trickle-down economics' and 'corporate efficiencies,' enabling the rise of giant firms that overpower governments and laws. This shift has led to historically low profits, stagnant growth, declining productivity, and soaring income inequality.

Now the rules-based systems have been co-opted by these giant firms that exploit their market power to subvert democracy and shape laws to serve their interests (and further entrench their undue influence) at the expense of society.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#212
post #10

The US can't even make cell phones any more. What would it take to get that capability back?

It’s easy, just make Americans poor enough that it makes sense to manufacture them here. Given that no one wants to pay more taxes or (realistically) cut spending, we’re well on our way.

+1, it’s truly like there are no adults at the helm any more.. nobody even talking about our fiscal path and that we need to raise taxes and scale back medicare/ss

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's the opposite. People buy iPhones and Apple products for the quality of their hardware and the cost of the devices themselves reflects this. Apple is one of the least software focused tech companies in the world. Everyone except for American teens obsessed with the colors of their chat bubbles uses WhatsApp, Telegram or FB Messenger and other completely platform independent apps. Nobody's ever bought an iphone fo…

> Nobody's ever bought an iphone for Apple Maps, everyone runs around with Google software on their phone. It is still running on Apple platform. I'm buying an iPhone, because I know that I'll get consistent Apple experience that is same across all of my devices, unlike zoo of Android + Windows/Linux.

What does that mean? There's no consistent Apple experience across Spotify, Venmo, TikTok and Facebook. There's pretty consistent experiences within these apps across devices, which is what people care about. Nobody cares about their operating system except for that one middle aged developer who loves that his apps look native on his macbook. But that's not why people buy phones.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#215
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that because of US inefficiencies or that they can't subsidize the cost with spying? Both?

>or that they can't subsidize the cost with spying? There's no evidence CCP is "subsidizing the cost with spying" when it comes to consumer electronics. Even when it came to telecom gear (during 5G rollout in developed countries), concerns were mostly theoretical.

I didn't mean the CCP and by spying I meant harvesting user data for ads. We were talking about why a US built phone is so expensive (Librem) compared to say Samsung, LG, etc. Are companies that aren't Purism offsetting their cost by harvesting juicy user data?

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem in China's case, is that there's a lot of evidence that China doesn't even care whether or not it's paid back. One, the loans were given often in dollars. Which China found itself with a surplus of the past few decades. With no convenient way of ridding themselves of those dollars without significant pain, Chinese strategists hit on the brilliant plan of "loans". Two, and more importantly, the loans were…

roads and bridges to ports are exactly what imf and world bank loan do too, for obvious reasons frankly this whole comment reads as historically less informed

And how many world bank loans are given to, well, let’s call them “less than stellar” African governments?

All the Chinese needed for the infra loan projects to work were nations who couldn’t access financing via other means. Now they’ve been doing it a while, even the nations that can access the financing have been dipping into that well. Sometimes it’s just better terms.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#217
post #99
post #57

One thing people are not aware of and am curious of how big it really is: China manufacturing laundry. Essentially, goods are manufactured in China, then laundered to a third-party country and then exported to the US/EU. This come in two flavors, legal laundry where the local manufacturer satisfies the conditions; and illegal one where bribes are paid to pass goods. > https://antidumping.vn/eu-chinabike-duty-hits-ind…

One example is what you seem to refer to; a solar panel reading made in Vietnam - assembled in Vietnam but by a Chinese owned company with all Chinese components. Another example is the iPhone reading made in China with a dollar value of 400 but the true value add in China is much lower as all the IP, profit margins, and high value components belong somewhere else. This means that even though these numbers look very…

iPhone chips are made in Taiwan. The displays are certainly not made in the US although the glass might be.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#218
post #14
post #3

Huh. For all the claims that US manufacturing is down, it does seem that if we adjusted per-capita it's on par with China based on the figures presented here, which I really didn't expect to see I'm no expert and of course I have no clue if it even makes sense to measure per-capita manufacturing share, and also assume a lot of other factors matter here - what kinds of things we're manufacturing, how much those produc…

You might be surprised to learn that manufacturing is larger industry in the US than our tech industry, or that our domestic oil industry is even larger. America produces more oil than any other country. America was the world's factory for over a century. This dominance only ended around 2010, when China took the lead. It was our advantage to lose, and it was the result of deliberate political action. We offshored ma…

> It was our advantage to lose

That's bullshit. China is more than 5 time larger than the US, so you really expect them to build fewer things than you forever?

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the problem Canada and Mexico, or is it corporations and business elites exploiting loopholes and abusing the system? Manufacturing in Canada was destroyed by competition in China. The root issue is the unchecked market power of businesses and the complete lack of repercussions for corporations and business elites that destroy industries, social systems, and deplete natural resources—without accountability for lon…

the real problem is this poorly planned effort to make the US a manufacturing nation via political fiat in the face of all reason rather than accepting economic realities about comparative advantage in manufacturing

The US was once a manufacturing powerhouse and, in theory, could become one again. Working-class people understandably want their jobs back, and you can’t blame them for being taken in by false promises to bring those jobs back.

But the harsh reality is that creating a regulatory, taxation, and broader economic landscape attractive to manufacturing would inevitably threaten elites and firms at the top of the economic hierarchy. While there’s nothing wrong with that -- in fact, it’s likely healthy for the economy -- it won’t happen[1]. Those elites and anticompetitive firms abuse their undue influence to subvert democracy and shape laws in order to further entrench their market power.

[1] Or more precisely, it won't happen soon. It's pretty clear that the era we're in is coming to an end but change will likely be slow unless there's a surprise shock to the system.

Re: China is the manufacturing superpower

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be right. But a major 21st century conflict is likely going to be very different from past conflicts and we still don't know what that will look like. We're getting a few glimpses from the Ukraine conflict - drones, social media - but who knows what else. Having a numerical advantage in conventional arms might be the equivalent of having superior cavalry at the onset of WWI

> We're getting a few glimpses from the Ukraine conflict - drones, social media - but who knows what else Actually, from the assessments that I have read, while new technology and drones have made a meaningful splash, it seems like manpower and the ability to produce large quantities of artillery shells have been the true determiner of the tides. The lesson learned thus far is that considerations from the past still…

Well I did say a glimpse. Manpower, food, supply chains and all the basics will never not matter. It's a question of what could be a deciding advantage that did not exist before, like mechanized divisions in WWI and air power subsequently. Russia-Ukraine is still a very conventional land war but it won't surprise me if a future China-US conflict was fought (and maybe even won or lost) virtually as well as conventionally.
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