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How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

economist.com

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Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#101

Post by pydry »

kaonwarb wrote: post #92
Schnitz wrote: post #84

I disagree with this being presented as if it was special. It’s standard operating procedure for intelligence agencies worldwide.

This is not standard operating procedure worldwide, in part because there aren't that many countries folks are trying to flee to: > America granted him asylum and he settled in New York, becoming the leader of Chinese pro-democracy groups. But in August 2024 he was arrested by the FBI. He admits to having used his position to collect information for the Chinese government and to report on his fellow activists. He did…

shrug I know members of a foreign diaspora that (my) western government has tried to turn into spies.

Doesnt get talked about in the media much but it happens.

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#102

Post by rexpop »

inglor_cz wrote: post #76

As a non-Chinese and a non-American, I care less about the usual geopolitical games, including spying, and more about how the Chinese government treats its own citizens. No freedom of speech or conscience, no political freedoms: just work and be an obedient small truckle in the mechanism of the Leviathan. Plus the return of the Cult of Personality, which once even the CCP tried to abandon, but ultimately failed. Thes…

I should think it were fruit of the same root.

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#103

Post by jen20 »

yread wrote: post #19
wruza wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it work in US, you just look at the guy and then he sends you his IBAN? Aren’t companies required to establish an employee’s origin by bureaucratic means? IDs, SSNs, notarized copies, work permit, etc? Why are North Korean guys even a problem, it feels like they shouldn’t be able to fake identification numbers and permits, unless something is fundamentally wrong with the country’s accounting.

they dont have iban in the US. That would be communism

What? Every US account I have can receive international transactions via an IBAN number. They just aren't used for domestic transactions - this is the same in the UK (where a sort code is used in place of a routing code, but has exactly the same purpose).

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#104

Post by RandomThoughts3 »

yread wrote: post #19
wruza wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it work in US, you just look at the guy and then he sends you his IBAN? Aren’t companies required to establish an employee’s origin by bureaucratic means? IDs, SSNs, notarized copies, work permit, etc? Why are North Korean guys even a problem, it feels like they shouldn’t be able to fake identification numbers and permits, unless something is fundamentally wrong with the country’s accounting.

they dont have iban in the US. That would be communism

They use Swift BIC and an account number at the branch because that’s already there and there is one thing American banks hate even more than communism it’s change and having to spend any kind of money to modernise.

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#105

Post by crop_rotation »

inglor_cz wrote: post #76

As a non-Chinese and a non-American, I care less about the usual geopolitical games, including spying, and more about how the Chinese government treats its own citizens. No freedom of speech or conscience, no political freedoms: just work and be an obedient small truckle in the mechanism of the Leviathan. Plus the return of the Cult of Personality, which once even the CCP tried to abandon, but ultimately failed. Thes…

While I don't like the lack of freedoms in China, the Chinese government has done an amazing job lifting it's people out of poverty. I am not Chinese but I think most people around the world would gladly take that over being poor (most western people do not know how bad and undignified life in poverty can be)

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#106

Post by whimsicalism »

brookst wrote: post #90
whimsicalism wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes the US has better rule of law and is an actual democracy, for sure. but China does not seem to be so bad by the standards that we hold our own allies to, so to me it is unclear why we have become locked into this neo cold war so quickly. some of our allies make china look like a saint in comparison

Which of our allies make China look like a saint?

saudi arabia

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#107

Post by lazyeye »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #98
coliveira wrote: post #40

[flagged]

Many other countries would help people with opportunistic industrial espionage so there is a distinct advantage to proactively working with their spy agencies. This is not the case in the West, there is still industrial espionage but it's established and not opportunistic so far fewer people are involved.

Also, you can point out what you believe to be the bad behavior of the West and nobody will accuse you of being racist...

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#108

Post by monadINtop »

lazyeye wrote: post #91
Schnitz wrote: post #84

I disagree with this being presented as if it was special. It’s standard operating procedure for intelligence agencies worldwide.

Its probably more a question of scale that makes China unique.

Do you have any numbers that would verify that? Or even any other statement on that issue? Pretty sure determining the "scale" of any kind of intelligence activity is unbelievably murky, as you might be able to imagine.

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#109

Post by RandomThoughts3 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #76

As a non-Chinese and a non-American, I care less about the usual geopolitical games, including spying, and more about how the Chinese government treats its own citizens. No freedom of speech or conscience, no political freedoms: just work and be an obedient small truckle in the mechanism of the Leviathan. Plus the return of the Cult of Personality, which once even the CCP tried to abandon, but ultimately failed. Thes…

> No freedom of speech or conscience, no political freedoms: just work and be an obedient

There is significantly more politics involved in how the CPP is run than you think and people complain more than you seem to believe. It’s far from an open democracy but it’s not North Korea either.

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