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How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

economist.com

11–20 of 249 posts

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#11

Is this... not a normal practice for all intelligence services of the world? Emigrants always have ties to the originland.

Not really, for most countries this kind of intelligence gathering is really expensive with low ROI and so not worth it. (Edit: word order for clarity.)

The typical country is closer to Cambodia or Honduras not a world power. China can leverage it, but most countries aren’t China.

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#12
post #3

There should be a substantial CIA effort to recruit at every US university with more than 2 Chinese nationals. Student loans forgiven and green cards for the family.

About twenty-five years ago, two Chinese students at my university were killed for seemingly no reason. Whoever killed them didn't steal anything. They hadn't been in any known conflicts with others in the community. It seemed completely random. But it wasn't. Turned out the husband was the son of the governor of some rural province in China. The father got into some kind of conflict with rivals, so they sent someone to the US to murder his son and daughter-in-law to send him a message. They were in the US under aliases but that didn't protect them, neither did being on the other side of the planet in a small, rural college town.

If China wants to reach out and make an example of students in the US who turn their back on their homeland, they can do so very easily and in a manner that both has plausible deniability and sends a clear message to other students. We're an open society and it's impossible to protect everyone from other nation-states if they see an individual as a threat to the nation-state's interests.

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#14
post #3

There should be a substantial CIA effort to recruit at every US university with more than 2 Chinese nationals. Student loans forgiven and green cards for the family.

I wonder if this'd just lead to a perverse incentive[1] where the share of Chinese nationals in universities increases as an effect.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#15
post #11

Is this... not a normal practice for all intelligence services of the world? Emigrants always have ties to the originland.

Not really, for most countries this kind of intelligence gathering is really expensive with low ROI and so not worth it. (Edit: word order for clarity.) The typical country is closer to Cambodia or Honduras not a world power. China can leverage it, but most countries aren’t China.

>> with low ROI and so not worth it for most countries.

I think by the very nature of what’s going on you’re demonstratedly wrong on this point.

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#17
post #4

Soon enough anything that is even remotely a security threat (pretty much any non-trivial app) will require clearance and in office work. The North Korean hacks into several companies are an example of how bad it is now, add in some good deep fake technology and soon you will not be able to distinguish who is actually working for your company.

How does it work in US, you just look at the guy and then he sends you his IBAN?

Aren’t companies required to establish an employee’s origin by bureaucratic means? IDs, SSNs, notarized copies, work permit, etc? Why are North Korean guys even a problem, it feels like they shouldn’t be able to fake identification numbers and permits, unless something is fundamentally wrong with the country’s accounting.

Re: How China turns members of its diaspora into spies

#19
post #17
post #4

Soon enough anything that is even remotely a security threat (pretty much any non-trivial app) will require clearance and in office work. The North Korean hacks into several companies are an example of how bad it is now, add in some good deep fake technology and soon you will not be able to distinguish who is actually working for your company.

How does it work in US, you just look at the guy and then he sends you his IBAN? Aren’t companies required to establish an employee’s origin by bureaucratic means? IDs, SSNs, notarized copies, work permit, etc? Why are North Korean guys even a problem, it feels like they shouldn’t be able to fake identification numbers and permits, unless something is fundamentally wrong with the country’s accounting.

they dont have iban in the US. That would be communism
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