I don’t even use iCloud Photos and this was on by default. Very bad move by Apple to ship my photos off my device, without my permission, in any shape or form, I don’t care.
If you don't use iCloud Photos your photos are not shipped off your device.
Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
91–100 of 1001 posts
Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
#92Earlier quoted context omitted.
I do not have anything backed up on any cloud servers on any provider. If I had to buy a new phone I would start from a fresh installation and move all of my data locally. It's not that I'm a "luddite", I just couldn't keep track of all of the different ways each cloud provider was managing my data, so I disabled all of them.
If only Apple had a centralized backup service that could store everything automatically at a click of a button so you wouldn’t have to juggle multiple cloud providers…
I kinda was somewhat with you until this point.
Apple IS just another cloud provider / centralized backup service. It's not fundamentally different than others, and if you're not in select group of whatever the respectful term is for those who stay strictly inside apple ecosystem, you will have multiple clouds and multiple data sets and multiple backups that all interact with each other and your heterogeneous devices in unpredictable ways. Icloud will not help you with that any more than google cloud or Samsung cloud etc. They all want to own all of your stuff, neither is simply a hyper helpful neutral director.
Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
I do not have anything backed up on any cloud servers on any provider. If I had to buy a new phone I would start from a fresh installation and move all of my data locally. It's not that I'm a "luddite", I just couldn't keep track of all of the different ways each cloud provider was managing my data, so I disabled all of them.
If only Apple had a centralized backup service that could store everything automatically at a click of a button so you wouldn’t have to juggle multiple cloud providers…
Not all apps support Apple’s backup solution. Threema and Signal come to mind.
Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
The right call is to provide the feature and let users opt-in. Apple knows this is bad, they've directly witnessed the backlash to OCSP, lawful intercept and client-side-scanning. There is no world in which they did not realize the problem and decided to enable it by default anyways knowing full-well that users aren't comfortable with this. People won't trust homomorphic encryption, entropy seeding or relaying when n…
> This is what a coverup looks like This is a dumb take. They literally own the entire stack Photos runs on. If they really wanted to do a coverup we would never know about it.
Why wouldn't this mistake be addressed in a security hotfix then? Apple has to pick a lane - this is either intended behavior being enabled against user's wishes, or unintended behavior that compromises the security and privacy of iPhone owners.
Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
#95"I don't understand most of the technical details of Apple's blog post" I do: - Client side vectorization: the photo is processed locally, preparing a non-reversible vector representation before sending (think semantic hash). - Differential privacy: a decent amount of noise is added the the vector before sending it. Enough to make it impossible to reverse lookup the vector. The noise level here is ε = 0.8, which is q…
I appreciate the explanation. However, I think you do not address the main problem, which is that my data is being sent off my device by default and without any (reasonable) notice. Many users may agree to such a feature (as you say, it may be very secure), but to assume that everyone ought to be opted in by default is the issue.
Notice is always good and Apple should implement notice.
However, "my data is being sent off my device" is incorrect, as GP explained. Metadata, derived from your data, with noise added to make it irreversible, is being sent off your device. It's the equivalent of sending an MD5 of your password somewhere; you may still object, but it is not factually correct to say your password was transmitted.
Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
#96"I don't understand most of the technical details of Apple's blog post" I do: - Client side vectorization: the photo is processed locally, preparing a non-reversible vector representation before sending (think semantic hash). - Differential privacy: a decent amount of noise is added the the vector before sending it. Enough to make it impossible to reverse lookup the vector. The noise level here is ε = 0.8, which is q…
I appreciate the explanation. However, I think you do not address the main problem, which is that my data is being sent off my device by default and without any (reasonable) notice. Many users may agree to such a feature (as you say, it may be very secure), but to assume that everyone ought to be opted in by default is the issue.
When your phone sends out a ping to search for cellular towers, real estate brokers collect all that information to track everywhere you go and which stores you visit.
Owning a phone is a privacy failure by default in the United States.
Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
I appreciate the explanation. However, I think you do not address the main problem, which is that my data is being sent off my device by default and without any (reasonable) notice. Many users may agree to such a feature (as you say, it may be very secure), but to assume that everyone ought to be opted in by default is the issue.
I think it does address the main problem. What he is saying is that multiple layers of security is used to ensure (mathematically and theoretically proved) that there is no risk in sending the data, because it is encrypted and sent is such a way that apple or any third party will never be able to read/access it (again, based on theoretically provable math) . If there is no risk there is no harm, and then there is a d…
Except for the fact (?) that quantum computers will break this encryption so if you wanted to you could horde the data and just wait a few years and then decrypt?
Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not that binary. Nobody is forcing anything, you can not buy a phone, you can not use the internet. Heck, you can even not install any updates! What is happening, is that people make tradeoffs, and decide to what degree they trust who and what they interact with. Plenty of people might just 'go with the flow', but putting what Apple did here in the same bucket as what for example Microsoft or Google does is a gr…
I don't want my photos to take part in any network; never asked for it, never expected it to happen. I never used iCloud or other commercial cloud providers. This is just forceful data extraction by Apple, absolutely egregious behavior.
Then don't enable this feature?
Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not that binary. Nobody is forcing anything, you can not buy a phone, you can not use the internet. Heck, you can even not install any updates! What is happening, is that people make tradeoffs, and decide to what degree they trust who and what they interact with. Plenty of people might just 'go with the flow', but putting what Apple did here in the same bucket as what for example Microsoft or Google does is a gr…
> What is happening, is that people make tradeoffs, and decide to what degree they trust who and what they interact with. People aren't making tradeoffs - that's the problem. Apple is making the tradeoffs for them, and then retroactively asking their users "is this okay?" Users shouldn't need to buy a new phone to circumevent arbitrary restrictions on the hardware that is their legal property. If America had function…
They can just not enable the feature if they don't want this?
Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
I appreciate the explanation. However, I think you do not address the main problem, which is that my data is being sent off my device by default and without any (reasonable) notice. Many users may agree to such a feature (as you say, it may be very secure), but to assume that everyone ought to be opted in by default is the issue.
Notice is always good and Apple should implement notice. However, "my data is being sent off my device" is incorrect, as GP explained. Metadata, derived from your data, with noise added to make it irreversible, is being sent off your device. It's the equivalent of sending an MD5 of your password somewhere; you may still object, but it is not factually correct to say your password was transmitted.
> It's the equivalent of sending an MD5 of your password somewhere; you may still object, but it is not factually correct to say your password was transmitted.
Hackers love to have MD5 checksums of passwords. They make it way easier to find the passwords in a brute force attack.