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Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15

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Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15

#11
"I don't understand most of the technical details of Apple's blog post"

I do:

- Client side vectorization: the photo is processed locally, preparing a non-reversible vector representation before sending (think semantic hash).

- Differential privacy: a decent amount of noise is added the the vector before sending it. Enough to make it impossible to reverse lookup the vector. The noise level here is ε = 0.8, which is quite good privacy.

- OHTTP relay: it's sent through a 3rd party so Apple never knows your IP address. The contents are encrypted so the 3rd party never doesn't learn anything either (some risk of exposing "IP X is an apple photos user", but nothing about the content of the library).

- Homomorphic encryption: The lookup work is performed on server with encrypted data. Apple can't decrypt the vector contents, or response contents. Only the client can decrypt the result of the lookup.

This is what a good privacy story looks like. Multiple levels of privacy security, when any one of the latter 3 should be enough alone to protect privacy.

"It ought to be up to the individual user to decide their own tolerance for the risk of privacy violations." -> The author themselves looks to be an Apple security researcher, and are saying they can't make an informed choice here.

I'm not sure what the right call is here. But the conclusion "Thus, the only way to guarantee computing privacy is to not send data off the device." isn't true. There are other tools to provide privacy (DP, homomorphic encryption), while also using services. They are immensely complicated, and user's can't realistically evaluate risk. But if you want features that require larger-than-disk datasets, or frequently changing content, you need tools like this.

Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15

#12

I don't care if the device checks it, it uses homomorphic encryption and differential privacy. This is turned on by default. This angers me.

"homomorphic encryption and differential privacy"

It is new. It is fancy. It is not clear where HE/DP is being used, it depends if the code is written using the Swift toolkit, but even that has paths for exfiltration if used incorrectly. They claim they are using DP in Photos as stated in the article here:

https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/scenes-differenti...

But the fact remains they are looking at your pictures. I do not trust them for one fleeting fart in the wind on this. Think about it for a hot second: HE/DP allows you to perform operations on the data without knowing the data, but what if someone goofs an operation and it ends up returning the actual data?

Sorry, not buying it. Crypto is hard to get right, and when it is monetized like this for "new features", it is wildly unnecessary and exposes users to more risk.

Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15

#13
post #11

"I don't understand most of the technical details of Apple's blog post" I do: - Client side vectorization: the photo is processed locally, preparing a non-reversible vector representation before sending (think semantic hash). - Differential privacy: a decent amount of noise is added the the vector before sending it. Enough to make it impossible to reverse lookup the vector. The noise level here is ε = 0.8, which is q…

I appreciate the explanation. However, I think you do not address the main problem, which is that my data is being sent off my device by default and without any (reasonable) notice. Many users may agree to such a feature (as you say, it may be very secure), but to assume that everyone ought to be opted in by default is the issue.

Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15

#14
I'm moving my family out of apple photos, self hosted options have come a long way. I landed on immich [0] and a caddy plugin that allows for PKI certificate for account access while still allowing public shared URLs [1]*

There's also LibrePhotos which is packed with features but doesn't have as much polish as immich. They do however have a list of python libraries that can be used for offline/local inference for things like having an image model create a description of a photo that can benefit the full text search. [2]

[0] https://immich.app/

[1] https://github.com/alangrainger/immich-public-proxy/blob/mai...

[2] https://docs.librephotos.com/docs/user-guide/offline-setup

* Haven't actually tried this plugin yet, my weekend project is setting up my caddy VPS to tunnel to the immich container running on my Synology NAS

Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15

#15
post #11

"I don't understand most of the technical details of Apple's blog post" I do: - Client side vectorization: the photo is processed locally, preparing a non-reversible vector representation before sending (think semantic hash). - Differential privacy: a decent amount of noise is added the the vector before sending it. Enough to make it impossible to reverse lookup the vector. The noise level here is ε = 0.8, which is q…

The right call is to provide the feature and let users opt-in. Apple knows this is bad, they've directly witnessed the backlash to OCSP, lawful intercept and client-side-scanning. There is no world in which they did not realize the problem and decided to enable it by default anyways knowing full-well that users aren't comfortable with this.

People won't trust homomorphic encryption, entropy seeding or relaying when none of it is transparent and all of it is enabled in an OTA update.

> This is what a good privacy story looks like.

This is what a coverup looks like. Good privacy stories never force third-party services on a user, period. When you see that many puppets on stage in one security theater, it's only natural for things to feel off.

Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15

#16
> On macOS, I can usually prevent Apple software from phoning home by using Little Snitch. Unfortunately, Apple doesn't allow anything like Little Snitch on iOS.

On Android, NetGuard uses a "local VPN" to firewall outgoing traffic. Could the same be done on iOS, or does Apple network traffic bypass VPNs? Lockdown mentions ads, but not Apple servers, https://lockdownprivacy.com/.

Apple does publish IP ranges for different services, so it's theoretically possible to block 17.0.0.0/8 and then open up connections just for notifications and security updates, https://support.apple.com/en-us/101555

Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15

#17
post #11

"I don't understand most of the technical details of Apple's blog post" I do: - Client side vectorization: the photo is processed locally, preparing a non-reversible vector representation before sending (think semantic hash). - Differential privacy: a decent amount of noise is added the the vector before sending it. Enough to make it impossible to reverse lookup the vector. The noise level here is ε = 0.8, which is q…

I appreciate the explanation. However, I think you do not address the main problem, which is that my data is being sent off my device by default and without any (reasonable) notice. Many users may agree to such a feature (as you say, it may be very secure), but to assume that everyone ought to be opted in by default is the issue.

Do you use iCloud to store your photos?

Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15

#18
More on homomorphic encryption here: https://www.swift.org/blog/announcing-swift-homomorphic-encr...

Summary: "Homomorphic encryption (HE) is a cryptographic technique that enables computation on encrypted data without revealing the underlying unencrypted data to the operating process. It provides a means for clients to send encrypted data to a server, which operates on that encrypted data and returns a result that the client can decrypt. During the execution of the request, the server itself never decrypts the original data or even has access to the decryption key. Such an approach presents new opportunities for cloud services to operate while protecting the privacy and security of a user’s data, which is obviously highly attractive for many scenarios."

Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15

#19
post #6

So it sends your photos to be indexed on Apple servers. Turned on by default. This is probably done to compete with Google Photos which has a great photo search by word feature. With that said, Apple can use whatever privacy measures to protect user data. But at the end of the day, a subpoena can easily force them to hand over data. The best privacy measure is to just not have the data. I guess indexing photos offlin…

It does not send your photos to be indexed on Apple servers.

[deleted]

Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15

#20
post #11

"I don't understand most of the technical details of Apple's blog post" I do: - Client side vectorization: the photo is processed locally, preparing a non-reversible vector representation before sending (think semantic hash). - Differential privacy: a decent amount of noise is added the the vector before sending it. Enough to make it impossible to reverse lookup the vector. The noise level here is ε = 0.8, which is q…

Quantum makes the homomorphic stuff ineffective in the mid-term. All they have to do is hold on to the data and they can get the results of the lookup table computation, in maybe 10-25 years. Shouldn't be on by default.
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