Another setting that surprised me with being turned on by default apparently on macOS 15 is System Settings - Spotlight - "Help Apple Improve Search":
"Help improve Search by allowing Apple to store your Safari, Siri, Spotlight, Lookup, and #images search queries. The information collected is stored in a way that does not identify you and is used to improve search results."
Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
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Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
#22"I don't understand most of the technical details of Apple's blog post" I do: - Client side vectorization: the photo is processed locally, preparing a non-reversible vector representation before sending (think semantic hash). - Differential privacy: a decent amount of noise is added the the vector before sending it. Enough to make it impossible to reverse lookup the vector. The noise level here is ε = 0.8, which is q…
The right call is to provide the feature and let users opt-in. Apple knows this is bad, they've directly witnessed the backlash to OCSP, lawful intercept and client-side-scanning. There is no world in which they did not realize the problem and decided to enable it by default anyways knowing full-well that users aren't comfortable with this. People won't trust homomorphic encryption, entropy seeding or relaying when n…
It's not that binary. Nobody is forcing anything, you can not buy a phone, you can not use the internet. Heck, you can even not install any updates!
What is happening, is that people make tradeoffs, and decide to what degree they trust who and what they interact with. Plenty of people might just 'go with the flow', but putting what Apple did here in the same bucket as what for example Microsoft or Google does is a gross misrepresentation. Present it all as equals just kills the discussion, and doesn't inform anyone to a better degree.
When you want to take part in an interconnected network, you cannot do that on your own, and you will have to trust other parties to some degree. This includes things that might 'feel' like you can judge them (like your browser used to access HN right here), but you actually can't unless you understand the entire codebase of your OS and Browser, all the firmware on the I/O paths, and the silicon it all runs on. So you make a choice, which as you are reading this, is apparently that you trust this entire chain enough to take part in it.
It would be reasonable to make this optional (as in, opt-in), but the problem is that you end up asking a user for a ton of "do you want this" questions, almost every upgrade and install cycle, which is not what they want (we have had this since Mavericks and Vista, people were not happy). So if you can engineer a feature to be as privacy-centric yet automated as possible, it's a win for everyone.
Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
#23More on homomorphic encryption here: https://www.swift.org/blog/announcing-swift-homomorphic-encr... Summary: "Homomorphic encryption (HE) is a cryptographic technique that enables computation on encrypted data without revealing the underlying unencrypted data to the operating process. It provides a means for clients to send encrypted data to a server, which operates on that encrypted data and returns a result that t…
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Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
#24"I don't understand most of the technical details of Apple's blog post" I do: - Client side vectorization: the photo is processed locally, preparing a non-reversible vector representation before sending (think semantic hash). - Differential privacy: a decent amount of noise is added the the vector before sending it. Enough to make it impossible to reverse lookup the vector. The noise level here is ε = 0.8, which is q…
> The author themselves looks to be an Apple security researcher
They’re not. Jeff Johnson develops apps (specifically Safari extensions) for Apple platforms and frequently blogs about their annoyances with Apple, but they’re not a security researcher.
Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
#25To me it seems like a reasonable feature that was, for the most part, implemented with great consideration for user privacy, though maybe I’m too trusting of the description. I mostly think this article is rage-bait and one should be wary of ‘falling for it’ when it shows up on hacker news in much the same way that one should be wary when rage-bait articles show up in tabloids or on Facebook.
It seems likely to me that concerns like those of the article or some of the comments in this thread are irrelevant to Apple’s bottom line. A concern some customers may actually have is data usage, but I guess it’s likely that the feature is off if in low data mode.
I wonder if this particular sort of issue would be solved by some setting for ‘privacy defaults’ or something where journalists/activists/some corporate IT departments/people who write articles like the OP can choose something to cause OS updates to set settings to values that talk less on the network. Seems hard to make a UI that is understandable. There is already a ‘lockdown mode’ for iOS. I don’t know if it affects this setting.
Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
#26"I don't understand most of the technical details of Apple's blog post" I do: - Client side vectorization: the photo is processed locally, preparing a non-reversible vector representation before sending (think semantic hash). - Differential privacy: a decent amount of noise is added the the vector before sending it. Enough to make it impossible to reverse lookup the vector. The noise level here is ε = 0.8, which is q…
This may be a "good" privacy story but a way better one is to just not send any of your data anywhere, especially without prior consent.
Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
The right call is to provide the feature and let users opt-in. Apple knows this is bad, they've directly witnessed the backlash to OCSP, lawful intercept and client-side-scanning. There is no world in which they did not realize the problem and decided to enable it by default anyways knowing full-well that users aren't comfortable with this. People won't trust homomorphic encryption, entropy seeding or relaying when n…
It's not that binary. Nobody is forcing anything, you can not buy a phone, you can not use the internet. Heck, you can even not install any updates! What is happening, is that people make tradeoffs, and decide to what degree they trust who and what they interact with. Plenty of people might just 'go with the flow', but putting what Apple did here in the same bucket as what for example Microsoft or Google does is a gr…
> What is happening, is that people make tradeoffs, and decide to what degree they trust who and what they interact with.
People aren't making tradeoffs - that's the problem. Apple is making the tradeoffs for them, and then retroactively asking their users "is this okay?"
Users shouldn't need to buy a new phone to circumevent arbitrary restrictions on the hardware that is their legal property. If America had functional consumer protections, Apple would have been reprimanded harder than their smackdowns in the EU.
Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
I appreciate the explanation. However, I think you do not address the main problem, which is that my data is being sent off my device by default and without any (reasonable) notice. Many users may agree to such a feature (as you say, it may be very secure), but to assume that everyone ought to be opted in by default is the issue.
Do you use iCloud to store your photos?
I’m not the person you asked, but I agree with them. To answer your question: No, I do not use iCloud to store my photos. Even if I did, consent to store data is not the same as consent to scan or run checks on it. For a company whose messaging is all about user consent and privacy, that matters.
This would be easily solvable: On first run show a window with:
> Hey, we have this new cool feature that does X and is totally private because of Y [link to Learn More]
> Do you want to turn it on? You can change your mind later in Settings
> [Yes] [No]
Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
#29Earlier quoted context omitted.
The right call is to provide the feature and let users opt-in. Apple knows this is bad, they've directly witnessed the backlash to OCSP, lawful intercept and client-side-scanning. There is no world in which they did not realize the problem and decided to enable it by default anyways knowing full-well that users aren't comfortable with this. People won't trust homomorphic encryption, entropy seeding or relaying when n…
It's not that binary. Nobody is forcing anything, you can not buy a phone, you can not use the internet. Heck, you can even not install any updates! What is happening, is that people make tradeoffs, and decide to what degree they trust who and what they interact with. Plenty of people might just 'go with the flow', but putting what Apple did here in the same bucket as what for example Microsoft or Google does is a gr…
I don't want my photos to take part in any network; never asked for it, never expected it to happen. I never used iCloud or other commercial cloud providers. This is just forceful data extraction by Apple, absolutely egregious behavior.
Re: Apple Photos phones home on iOS 18 and macOS 15
#30"I don't understand most of the technical details of Apple's blog post" I do: - Client side vectorization: the photo is processed locally, preparing a non-reversible vector representation before sending (think semantic hash). - Differential privacy: a decent amount of noise is added the the vector before sending it. Enough to make it impossible to reverse lookup the vector. The noise level here is ε = 0.8, which is q…
This must be the first consumer or commercial product implementing homomorphic encryption is it not?
I would be surprised if doing noisy vector comparisons is actually the most effective way to tell if someone is in front of the Eiffel tower. A small large language model could caption it just as well on device, my spider sense tells me someone saw an opportunity to apply bleeding edge, very cool tech so that they can gain experience and do it bigger and better in the future, but they're fumbling their reputation by doing this kind of user data scanning.