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They have not been trained for this

ccc.de

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Re: They have not been trained for this

#91

Post by fragmede »

immibis wrote: post #64
boneitis wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't suppose they have any other published, easier methods? I spent almost an hour trying to jump through the fiery, spinning hoops being dangled by my bank website only to finally at the end be given an "It looks like this part of our site isn't working. Please try again later." Thank you, bank /s For anyone else wanting to try their hand and weather the gauntlet, I found slightly more detail of their published b…

For Europeans, this is an extremely easy method and the normal way to send money electronically. The information provided is all that's needed. If you're trying to send from America, it's still the normal way to send a payment to Europe so see how your bank sends international payments.

The problem that I'm guessing GP had is that their bank blocked the wire transfer because it looked fraud-y.

Re: They have not been trained for this

#92

Post by mulmen »

jopsen wrote: post #83
duxup wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no problem with some wide ranging law about right to repair. If that's regulation, yes please.

> If that's regulation, yes please It is, and as much as we all want to pretend this is always about rent seeking. There can be other reasons. Some systems are bought in manners that include service contracts and outs liability on manufacturers. In such scenarios one man's kill switch could be a safety feature. You don't want unauthorized personel messing about a medical x-ray device. Because (a) you want it to work,…

This is simply solved through liability. If someone can provide the service and liability guarantees for less than the manufacturer then you hire them.

John Deere is proof that the manufacturer alone can't be trusted because they can't provide timely service in a time-critical industry.

Re: They have not been trained for this

#93

Post by immibis »

MichaelBosworth wrote: post #88
immibis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Europeans, this is an extremely easy method and the normal way to send money electronically. The information provided is all that's needed. If you're trying to send from America, it's still the normal way to send a payment to Europe so see how your bank sends international payments.

“Extremely” is a bit extreme for something that takes 100,000 times longer than a Venmo payment. Or, intercontinentally, a stablecoin transfer

It literally doesn't. And why would Europeans use venmo? That type of app arose in the USA specifically, to work around not having a convenient way to send money from one bank account to another - much like bulletproof school backpacks, it solves a uniquely American problem.

Re: They have not been trained for this

#94

Post by immibis »

zahlman wrote: post #63
ryandrake wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, every time I read one of these articles, I can’t help but think: “A software engineer sat down and wrote this remote kill switch." We, as a profession are responsible for this shit, or at the very least, complicit. Regulation is one thing, but also, software engineering as a profession is in dire need of ethical standards. Just because we can code something doesn’t mean we should.

I remember one of Asimov's stories involved a human defeating the Laws of Robotics by distributing work among multiple robots with imperfect information. I wonder if something analogous doesn't happen with software engineers nowadays. When it comes to something like a "remote kill switch" for software, it's hard to imagine any alternate beneficial use. But generally I assign the blame to the users of software who put…

There was an anecdote shared on HN of someone claiming to be ethically employed by the military to develop a system for planes to automatically land on unmarked runways without engine power.

They didn't tell her the planes were elongated spherical and filled with powerful explosives and the runways weren't flat - at least not before the plane landed on them.

Re: They have not been trained for this

#95

Post by immibis »

jopsen wrote: post #83
duxup wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no problem with some wide ranging law about right to repair. If that's regulation, yes please.

> If that's regulation, yes please It is, and as much as we all want to pretend this is always about rent seeking. There can be other reasons. Some systems are bought in manners that include service contracts and outs liability on manufacturers. In such scenarios one man's kill switch could be a safety feature. You don't want unauthorized personel messing about a medical x-ray device. Because (a) you want it to work,…

Such liability issues are usually solved with a warning label. "Warning: 10000 volts. No user-serviceable parts inside." If the customer chooses to unscrew the cover and carelessly electrocute themselves, that's on them. It's much cheaper, too, than making the train brick itself if it's detected in specific geographical areas.

Re: They have not been trained for this

#96

Post by immibis »

neilv wrote: post #82

Can someone please summarize (for those of us who don't know the full story) why the government(s) that bought these trojaned trains isn't ripping the train vendor a new orifice, and pinning medals on the hackers who exposed this?

The governments are very capitalist and believe big companies should be allowed to do whatever they want.

Re: They have not been trained for this

#97

Post by immibis »

josefritzishere wrote: post #13

The CCC are heroes and should be celebrated as such.

Note that the CCC is more-or-less just a container organization for people who actually do stuff individually. These particular hackers are heroes. Even things like the Congress are run by some people who more-or-less decided to run the Congress each year. There substantial inertia in how things like that are done, of course.

Re: They have not been trained for this

#98

Post by sizzle »

Is there a reason they aren’t slapping up a Bitcoin or ethereum or even monero wallet address for crypto donations?!

Seems like they are taking a stance against crypto? Why else not use this perfect new decentralized medium for financial support?

Re: They have not been trained for this

#99

Post by sizzle »

jdiez17 wrote: post #32
conartist6 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't figure out how to donate from their website. Where did you donate to?

The payment information is a bit obfuscated, being only a parenthesized sequence of letters and numbers in the OP. IBAN: DE41 2001 0020 0599 0902 01 BIC: PBNKDEFFXXX Purpose: Lokomotive Payee: CCC eV

Why not use Bitcoin, ethereum, or monero address to receive funds from the tech saavy viewership?

Re: They have not been trained for this

#100

Post by ikt »

immibis wrote: post #93
MichaelBosworth wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Extremely” is a bit extreme for something that takes 100,000 times longer than a Venmo payment. Or, intercontinentally, a stablecoin transfer

It literally doesn't. And why would Europeans use venmo? That type of app arose in the USA specifically, to work around not having a convenient way to send money from one bank account to another - much like bulletproof school backpacks, it solves a uniquely American problem.

As an Australian we have payid to transfer free and instantly between banks instead of needing a 3rd party app but I think he's right that if you are relying on IBAN and needing to do an individual bank transfer then it's not ideal.

It should be as easy as possible to donate, imo it would be better even setting up a basic kofi or buy me a coffee account, or I see the Ukrainians using paypal all the time.

It should be a 3 click payment not a bank transfer requiring copying and pasting IBAN numbers and bank account numbers etc

To poke fun at the Germans at least they are not requesting we fax a copy of the money in :P

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