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They have not been trained for this

ccc.de

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Re: They have not been trained for this

#61

Post by ryandrake »

junga wrote: post #44
ryandrake wrote: post #10

Looks like train manufacturers are taking a page out of the playbooks of many other companies today. The practice of manufacturers remotely disabling products after the time of purchase (for whatever reason) is becoming a scourge in many other product areas. The device's manufacturer should have no say about how a product is used once money is handed over in exchange for it. This really has to stop. Regulatory agenci…

> This really has to stop. "We", the totally homogeneous group of software professionals could make this stop. "We" don't.

Yea, every time I read one of these articles, I can’t help but think: “A software engineer sat down and wrote this remote kill switch." We, as a profession are responsible for this shit, or at the very least, complicit. Regulation is one thing, but also, software engineering as a profession is in dire need of ethical standards. Just because we can code something doesn’t mean we should.

Re: They have not been trained for this

#62

Post by boneitis »

jdiez17 wrote: post #32
conartist6 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't figure out how to donate from their website. Where did you donate to?

The payment information is a bit obfuscated, being only a parenthesized sequence of letters and numbers in the OP. IBAN: DE41 2001 0020 0599 0902 01 BIC: PBNKDEFFXXX Purpose: Lokomotive Payee: CCC eV

I don't suppose they have any other published, easier methods?

I spent almost an hour trying to jump through the fiery, spinning hoops being dangled by my bank website only to finally at the end be given an "It looks like this part of our site isn't working. Please try again later."

Thank you, bank /s

For anyone else wanting to try their hand and weather the gauntlet, I found slightly more detail of their published bank acct info at: https://www.ccc.de/en/membership

and an official, physical address over at: https://www.ccc.de/en/imprint

Re: They have not been trained for this

#63

Post by zahlman »

ryandrake wrote: post #61
junga wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This really has to stop. "We", the totally homogeneous group of software professionals could make this stop. "We" don't.

Yea, every time I read one of these articles, I can’t help but think: “A software engineer sat down and wrote this remote kill switch." We, as a profession are responsible for this shit, or at the very least, complicit. Regulation is one thing, but also, software engineering as a profession is in dire need of ethical standards. Just because we can code something doesn’t mean we should.

I remember one of Asimov's stories involved a human defeating the Laws of Robotics by distributing work among multiple robots with imperfect information. I wonder if something analogous doesn't happen with software engineers nowadays.

When it comes to something like a "remote kill switch" for software, it's hard to imagine any alternate beneficial use. But generally I assign the blame to the users of software who put it to a malicious use, not to authors.

Re: They have not been trained for this

#64

Post by immibis »

boneitis wrote: post #62
jdiez17 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The payment information is a bit obfuscated, being only a parenthesized sequence of letters and numbers in the OP. IBAN: DE41 2001 0020 0599 0902 01 BIC: PBNKDEFFXXX Purpose: Lokomotive Payee: CCC eV

I don't suppose they have any other published, easier methods? I spent almost an hour trying to jump through the fiery, spinning hoops being dangled by my bank website only to finally at the end be given an "It looks like this part of our site isn't working. Please try again later." Thank you, bank /s For anyone else wanting to try their hand and weather the gauntlet, I found slightly more detail of their published b…

For Europeans, this is an extremely easy method and the normal way to send money electronically. The information provided is all that's needed.

If you're trying to send from America, it's still the normal way to send a payment to Europe so see how your bank sends international payments.

Re: They have not been trained for this

#65

Post by immibis »

junga wrote: post #44
ryandrake wrote: post #10

Looks like train manufacturers are taking a page out of the playbooks of many other companies today. The practice of manufacturers remotely disabling products after the time of purchase (for whatever reason) is becoming a scourge in many other product areas. The device's manufacturer should have no say about how a product is used once money is handed over in exchange for it. This really has to stop. Regulatory agenci…

> This really has to stop. "We", the totally homogeneous group of software professionals could make this stop. "We" don't.

I am physically there at C3 right now and one of the prevalent themes this year is "being nice didn't work". You can see it in this year's tagline: "illegal instructions"

Re: They have not been trained for this

#66

Post by zahlman »

dang wrote: post #53
magicalhippo wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Macroexpanded Unrelated but is this macro available to others, or just mods? I tried searching the webs for it but found nothing.

I use that word as a joke/metaphor - sorry if that misled you! here's more of an explanation if curious: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40564558

I have to say, I didn't expect to discover an established Lisp dialect implemented in JavaScript. But I guess it shouldn't be surprising.

Re: They have not been trained for this

#67

Post by immibis »

zahlman wrote: post #63
ryandrake wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea, every time I read one of these articles, I can’t help but think: “A software engineer sat down and wrote this remote kill switch." We, as a profession are responsible for this shit, or at the very least, complicit. Regulation is one thing, but also, software engineering as a profession is in dire need of ethical standards. Just because we can code something doesn’t mean we should.

I remember one of Asimov's stories involved a human defeating the Laws of Robotics by distributing work among multiple robots with imperfect information. I wonder if something analogous doesn't happen with software engineers nowadays. When it comes to something like a "remote kill switch" for software, it's hard to imagine any alternate beneficial use. But generally I assign the blame to the users of software who put…

It's become quite normal in malicious organizations of all types, such as most large businesses and governments.

Re: They have not been trained for this

#68

Post by immibis »

randunel wrote: post #25

> If more than the € 30,000 required to date is donated, if the legal costs are lower or if court costs are repaid, all payments received in excess will be used for the statutory purposes of the Chaos Computer Club e.V.. Please note that the CCC e.V. is not formally recognised as a non-profit organisation. That is one sure way to make people not donate to the cause. I want to support the people, but I don't want my m…

The CCC is a good organization to support anyway.

Re: They have not been trained for this

#69

Post by immibis »

nicce wrote: post #49
intunderflow wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, and frankly if the Polish government won't do anything with this overwhelming evidence then they've got the train manufacturer they deserve. You can lead a horse to water...

If that will happen, maybe it is time to start following that money.

What can you do after you find where the money is flowing?

Re: They have not been trained for this

#70

Post by nicce »

immibis wrote: post #69
nicce wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that will happen, maybe it is time to start following that money.

What can you do after you find where the money is flowing?

I am not familiar with Polish law about corruption or lobbying but if some politicians are getting money, that is a starting point.
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