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The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

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Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#401

Post by caeril »

atoav wrote: post #239
thayne wrote: post #178

This feels like the author has made the assumption that since they are an introvert, all introverts are like them. However, I think that introversion, like most things is a continuum, not binary. Take the characterization of introverts in the article: "They would rather sit in front of the computer than go out during the yearly college social fest." For me it isn't just a matter of "I'd rather be in front of a comput…

I am an introvert and I can (and if necessary will) take over the microphone and address a room with 500 people in it. I might even enjoy that a little. What makes me an introvert isn't that I am shy (I am not), what makes me an introvert is that I find all interaction with other people except a select few exhausting and draining. Don't get me wrong: That doesn't mean I am weird or bad at talking with people — in fac…

> take over the microphone and address a room with 500 people in it

I'm not sure this has anything to do with introversion.

Speech and debate clubs are filled with introverts. The notion of "stage fright" is completely orthogonal to introversion. You're speaking at people, with YOUR ideas, YOUR words - it's not a dialogue, with shared feelings, mood, etc, which is where introverts generally get drained.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#403

Post by [deleted] »

croes wrote: post #322
sweezyjeezy wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but the statement in question is (quote) "you can be EQUALLY successful as an introvert" - and we're talking about whether people should, generally, strive to be more extroverted at work. That there exists a successful introvert is not in question and isn't a good criticism of the article to me.

Equally to what? The maximum success of extroverts or the average or the mean? What exactly is meant by succesful? What's the measure?

[deleted]

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#404

Post by boogieknite »

Dracophoenix wrote: post #220
boogieknite wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my own experience as someone who used to be very extroverted: extroversion was meeting a social expectation. i had good social skills and people relied on me to carry social situations. i could entertain, organize and predict needs. i earned that expectation to feed my ego and then became trapped in a vicious cycle. then i had a fresh start after moving to a new city for grad school and have done my best to avoid any…

> i had good social skills and people relied on me to carry social situations. i could entertain, organize and predict needs. Exactly how were you doing so? Were you able to predict these needs with "tells" or some other reference point? Did you get assessments wrong? > i earned that expectation to feed my ego and then became trapped in a vicious cycle. What caused you to think it wasn't worth it anymore?

> Exactly how were you doing so? Were you able to predict these needs with "tells" or some other reference point? Did you get assessments wrong?

tells is a good way to put it. had a close friend from my hometown who lived for manipulating people and hanging out with him for 4 years taught me a lot. if he pulled some slick move or long setup on someone (including me) hed discuss the chain of tells and decisions if i asked him. boiled down mostly to confidence, conditioning, in group/out group. ugly stuff. the hook was his ability to manufacture novel, cheap thrills. this was enough to keep everyone interested in sticking around. he liked having cronies and i could do a b- version of him.

ive made many wrong assessments. i ignored the mistakes and focused on successes to keep feeding my ego. to abuse an analogy id burn a bridge without thinking of it because i was already making a new friend to fill that spot.

> What caused you to think it wasn't worth it anymore?

after leaving that environment i noticed how relaxing it was to hang out with my own thoughts. i realized how i was just playing part i had cast myself in for attention and no other real benefit. i happened to take an Excel VBA class my senior year and became obsessed with programming. became more interested in learning to code than anything else. i noticed the benefits of avoiding attention. introverts probably learn these lessons early but i learned them late.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#405

Post by PaulHoule »

lll-o-lll wrote: post #329
atleastoptimal wrote: post #307

I am an introvert not because I don’t like socializing with people, but rather because I can’t shake the impression that they don’t like socializing with me (and I have been proven right in this notion). In order to become more likable I’ve had to adopt an extremely perceptive and self critical mental framework to analyze every thing I could be doing wrong to annoy or offend people. It has worked, and people seem to…

You might be a bit autistic, common enough in the software world. Lookup something called “autistic masking”. Source: All the autistic people in my life. I really like autistic people! Find your people and you won’t have to pretend around them.

My suspicion is that many people who think they have autism or ADHD really have

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizotypy

Myself I learned to outperform extroverts at their own game temporarily (can do cold calls all day with zero fear) although I use a lot of tricks based on dissociation (I have a fox that comes out when I need it, in fact it just told me I have to get in better physical shape to be a better host.)

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#406

Post by achierius »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #202
onemoresoop wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pressure to be social is like pressure to stay fit. If you don’t put any effort it atrophies.

Unlike being fit, being social doesn't have any inherent benefit in terms of health. It's merely a preference.

I don't think this is true, unless perhaps if you use a very narrow definition of 'inherent'. e.g. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3150158/

Reduces mortality, increases happiness, cardiovascular health, etc.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#407

Post by vasco »

knorker wrote: post #387
vasco wrote: post #266

Most negative self labels have this property, not just introversion. I know people that say "they are always late haha", people that say "they aren't good at math", people that say "they don't like art" and many others, and they just serve to hold you back. In almost every time I hear this, I just hear "I decided I don't want to be or do this". And even if you were truly bad at something that is expected by society,…

Not sure I would say introversion is a negative self label. > people that say "they are always late haha" No, that just means "I don't respect other people or their time, haha". > people that say "they aren't good at math" There are people who say it as an excuse to not try. But you know, some people are bad at math, so maybe let's have someone else on the team do that part? But what's the difference to "I don't want…

It is funny that you reply to a diatribe about not attaching yourself to labels to come across as very defensive of the label you've given yourself. My whole point is we're not anything, you're not an introvert is my point.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#408

Post by billy99k »

Tainnor wrote: post #281
billy99k wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"extraverts will be less outside their comfort zone day to day than introverts" This is a grass is always greener take, and definitely not true. "because our modern Western society values extraversion more" Everybody throughout humanity has valued extraversion more. This isn't something new. Humans are social creatures and people that are more social will be more successful at life. This will never change. "introvert…

> I've worked with lots of introverts (I am a mix of both introvert and extrovert) in tech and it usually goes along with passive aggressive behavior (because introverts usually don't like confrontation) and other behavior that makes collaboration (which is needed in almost all business settings) a nightmare. I could just as well say that extraversion goes along with overly assertive and aggressive behaviour and othe…

"I could just as well say that extraversion goes along with overly assertive and aggressive behaviour and other behaviour that makes collaboration a nightmare"

I don't really see this very often. If someone isn't writing documentation or writing proper tickets, I don't think it has anything to do with being an extrovert/introvert.

"because everyone is different and you can't just generalise like that. Being an introvert doesn't mean you're bad at communication or avoid confrontation"

I've worked with lots of introverts over the years and although you may see it as a generalization, it's just my experience. In another way, you could call it my truth.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#410

Post by Barrin92 »

bawolff wrote: post #165
onemoresoop wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pressure to be social is like pressure to stay fit. If you don’t put any effort it atrophies.

if you're staying fit because you are being pressured, you probably aren't having any fun. Staying fit by doing something you enjoy (hiking, sports with friends, whatever) you are probably going to have more fun, and stick with it. If you only socialize with people you don't like because you are "forced"/"pressured" to, you aren't going to have a good time. Socializing is supposed to be fun, if you turn it into a job…

>if you're staying fit because you are being pressured, you probably aren't having any fun

Not everything in life is about "having fun". Pushing yourself beyond your own comfort zone, or being pushed, is by definition not going to be enjoyable in some superficial sense, but it's the only way you'll ever actually engage with anything new or unfamiliar and grow.

Nobody who is grossly out of shape enjoys showing up at the gym the first time, but even though they don't enjoy it, it will benefit them all the same and eventually they may very well come to like it. It's the same with education, decades of trying to make education "fun" have resulted in large amounts of people being unable to absorb anything that isn't in some trivial sense gratifying.

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