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The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

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Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#131

Post by saghm »

buran77 wrote: post #124
pizza234 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person who was very introvert at social gatherings, and the polar opposite now, I'm now convinced that being extrovert is not a skill or an "area" (outside the comfort zone), but rather a state of mind. It's certainly an art and a science to be a good conversationalist, but being in that certain state of mind is "a lot %" of what's needed, and it actually takes no energy or comfort - although as other state, nat…

> but being in that certain state of mind is "a lot %" of what's needed, and it actually takes no energy or comfort Your mileage may vary but it certainly takes energy to maintain a state of mind which doesn't come naturally to you. This is bound to affect your comfort eventually. Since there are degrees of intro/extroversion, it may be easier for some people to will themselves across that divide. It's like floating…

This is an important point. Most people who I interact with would probably characterize me as an extrovert because I'm often super talkative and energetic, but the only reason I act like this is because I get time to "recharge" every day by spending time without interacting with anyone (other than my wife, who is the one person that doesn't take "energy" for me to spend time with). Even spending time with close friends and family members is something I need occasional breaks from to maintain my sanity.

I often describe this concept to people as a social "battery"; I need time to charge it (almost) every day in order to have anything to spend the next day, but it also can ruin the capacity if I charge it for too long while it's at max. Figuring out the right balance is key, especially when other circumstances can affect how much energy it feels like is expended by socializing (e.g. ambient stress level from other parts of my life.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#132

Post by bdangubic »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #112
pizza234 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a person who was very introvert at social gatherings, and the polar opposite now, I'm now convinced that being extrovert is not a skill or an "area" (outside the comfort zone), but rather a state of mind. It's certainly an art and a science to be a good conversationalist, but being in that certain state of mind is "a lot %" of what's needed, and it actually takes no energy or comfort - although as other state, nat…

The core problem is that introvert/extrovert has little or no bearings on someone's social ability. Introvert/extrovert is the method that people use to recharge their energy. It has nothing to do with social ability despite the terms getting hijacked for that. Signed, an extremely introverted person who talks and interacts a lot in social situations.

this is like saying you know all about how it is to be an orphan because you read Oliver Twist

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#133

Post by yieldcrv »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #128
Workaccount2 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The core problem is that introvert/extrovert has little or no bearings on someone's social ability. Introvert/extrovert is the method that people use to recharge their energy. It has nothing to do with social ability despite the terms getting hijacked for that. Signed, an extremely introverted person who talks and interacts a lot in social situations.

I don’t think it’s so simple. Brains are complicated and everyone is different.

That’s fine but how people term introvert to be reclusive is inaccurate.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#134

Post by brailsafe »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #87
bluefirebrand wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of your advice is for shy people, not introverts Being an introvert is not the same as being shy, and it is long past time that people stop conflating the two concepts You cannot "fix" being an introvert by practicing being social

could you humor me and exPlain why you think this? I’m neither shy nor introverted and I have only a casual understanding of either. If I take their comment literally, I guess the only part I would see being different is “it will feel liberating.” But aside from that I do support the advice of people going out of their comfort zone, even if they hate it. I read GPs advice as “go to the social gym.” For some people th…

I think people need to reconcile their level of interest in making new friends or finding success in innately social environments with their level of willingness to overcome fear or exhaustion. I see a lot of people in this thread basically saying approx. "you don't get it, it's exhausting", and that's fine enough if you've determined you get no value (after exploring that prospect valiantly) in doing the thing that exhausts you, but it's not fine if you do get value out of something and aren't willing to exhaust yourself.

Exhaustion for me is often a key component in anything I do. The friends that do find social interaction exhaustion and can't overcome it, I end up seeing once a year, and that seems to be ok with them, but if they were hoping for more, they need to practice being exhausted.

Lastly, if you're not practicing the exhausting things, you're practicing the comfortable things, imho. It seems more true in more cases that people aren't willing to do anything that exhausts them, so they never walk far, they never go to the gym, they get fat and isolate themselves socially... until they realize that they've suddenly become squishy, dull, and lonely, then look for a quick fix that doesn't cost them anything, and maybe post to Reddit "Any friends out there? I'm an avid reader and single player video gamer that will sometimes come out for 30 min if it doesn't conflict with my nightly 5 hour solo stationary leisure time. We could start a group chat!". There's nothing inherently wrong with that, it doesn't need to be fixed, but it services what it services and it's worh thinking deeply about whether that is or isn't worth practicing.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#135

Post by zdragnar »

bdangubic wrote: post #132
Workaccount2 wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The core problem is that introvert/extrovert has little or no bearings on someone's social ability. Introvert/extrovert is the method that people use to recharge their energy. It has nothing to do with social ability despite the terms getting hijacked for that. Signed, an extremely introverted person who talks and interacts a lot in social situations.

this is like saying you know all about how it is to be an orphan because you read Oliver Twist

When I first met one of my friends, I had assumed he was very extroverted from observing him at work. It was only when I really got to know him that he is, in fact, just as introverted as I am, if not more- something he even told me after we got to talking one night.

The parent post is correct: extroversion and introversion is about how you feel being in groups, not how you act.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#136

Post by purple-leafy »

rors wrote: post #44

I feel like a lot of these debates boil down dealing with discomfort. We seem to be creating a society where everyone feels they have the right to not feeling stressed and uncomfortable. The danger to never feeling challenged is that you don't grow. You get stuck in a rut and everyone passes you by. Part of dealing with discomfort is learning what your limits are. No one should put themselves in a situation with you…

But who are you (or anyone for that matter) to decide that everyone should "grow" in areas X,Y,Z? I hate blanket statements like "We seem to be creating a society where everyone feels they have the right to not feeling stressed and uncomfortable".

For example - I hate the modern office workplace 9-5 in-office bullshit. I know exactly what I want. I don't need to "grow" any more in this area. Can I do 9-5 in an office? Yes - but I fucking hate it and no amount of growth will change that. Why should I be forced to come into an office, for a job I do better at home, because Bob from management needs to be around people? I say to this - fuck Bob, Bob can go shit bricks.

Another example - I am very comfortable with living without any social media, or a smart phone, or a Tv, all at the same time. But, you don't see me going around forcing people into this way of being, and then when they find it horrible/stressful/uncomfortable saying "well maybe we are creating a society where everyone feels they have the right to not feeling stressed and uncomfortable, fuck your tv"

Instead - We are creating a society of non-thinkers, conformists, average-results-for-all, and dumb opinions like "well, I can deal with it - why can't you? Are you lazy/introverted/mentally-handicapped?"

I think challenging yourself is great, FOR SHIT THAT MATTERS. And only you can dictate what matters, fuck Bob or anyone else that tries to impose "what matters" on you.

The problem is, your statement sounds generalised to "challenge yourself in everything". I don't care for that, I care about challenging myself in a select few things of my choosing, I am my own man. I forge my destiny, I plow my path where I want to, not where society or Bob tells me.

------

And you know what the result will be for Bob and I?

Bob will not really grow as a person at all, his life will be all soft smoothed edges, not unique in any sense. Bob will be the same as everyone else with slight variations here and there, Bob will be boring, and at the end of Bobs life, on his deathbed he will say, "well, at least I didn't rock the boat!"

I, and others like me, will grow, in a unique sense, jagged edges, sharp incline and deep depressions. I will say when I die "I wish I leant even more into rocking the boat, capsizing it, just to see what would happen"

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#137

Post by onemoresoop »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #129
kstrauser wrote: post #86

I regularly say yes to work dinners and such that I don’t personally want to attend. That sort of thing is far outside my comfort zone, and that’s exactly why I do it. It’s good exercise to pretend to be outgoing and chatty for an evening. Like any other skill, you get better at it with practice! And the author here is so right: almost everyone else at these things besides the salespeople are probably also introverts…

Ever since I stopped doing this I’ve been much happier. Now that I’m old I don’t feel pressure to conform to social norms, I just do whatever I want. If that means I don’t see anyone else for weeks who cares. In my youth I felt so much pressure to be social and it’s just not what I want to be doing.

Pressure to be social is like pressure to stay fit. If you don’t put any effort it atrophies.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#138

Post by stormking »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #87
bluefirebrand wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of your advice is for shy people, not introverts Being an introvert is not the same as being shy, and it is long past time that people stop conflating the two concepts You cannot "fix" being an introvert by practicing being social

could you humor me and exPlain why you think this? I’m neither shy nor introverted and I have only a casual understanding of either. If I take their comment literally, I guess the only part I would see being different is “it will feel liberating.” But aside from that I do support the advice of people going out of their comfort zone, even if they hate it. I read GPs advice as “go to the social gym.” For some people th…

It's very simple: As an introvert, I'm neither afraid of nor bad at social situations. I'm just not (that) interested.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#139

Post by molochai »

At the risk of sounding like a jerk, the Ram/Shyam story -- it sounds like one of those people is good at getting their job done and works well to solve hard problems independently... and the other person over-relies on other people via collaboration, and compensates by making excessive "high visibility" noise. One of those people is solving critical bugs, the other one is... doing demos for other teams. It's sort of telling Shyam prefers work broken down into small, digestible, predictable chunks.

It's a shame management (in my experience) seems to consistently value Shyam's style. Too much of either working style leads to problems. Excess in the first leads to overlap, duplicated work, and incogruent pieces that don't fit together. Excess in the second leads to a lot of people talking quite a bit about work while nothing tangible or truly difficult gets done.

Re: The trap of "I am not an extrovert"

#140

Post by mcdeltat »

rors wrote: post #44

I feel like a lot of these debates boil down dealing with discomfort. We seem to be creating a society where everyone feels they have the right to not feeling stressed and uncomfortable. The danger to never feeling challenged is that you don't grow. You get stuck in a rut and everyone passes you by. Part of dealing with discomfort is learning what your limits are. No one should put themselves in a situation with you…

A convenient take, when you consider that (generally) extraverts will be less outside their comfort zone day to day than introverts, because our modern Western society values extraversion more. The article is giving vibes of "extraverts are great and inherently good people, introverts are bad and need to grow up!"
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