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More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

theguardian.com

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Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#191

Post by sunaookami »

Eisenstein wrote: post #147
slothtrop wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without any option to appeal. Why would that be? Currently content is flagged and moderators decide whether to take it down. Using AI, it's easy conceive a process where some uploaded content is preflagged requiring an appeal (otherwise it's the same as before, a pair of human eyes automatically looking at uploaded material). Uploaders trying to publish rule-breaking content would not bother with an appeal that wou…

Because edge cases exist, and it isn't worth it for a company to hire enough staff to deal with them when one user with a problem, even if that problem is highly impactful to their life, just doesn't matter when the user is effectively the product and not the customer. Once the AI works well enough, the staff is gone and the cases where someone's business or reputation gets destroyed because there are no ways to appe…

This and social media companies in the EU tend to just delete stuff because of draconian laws where content must be deleted in 24 hours or they face a fine. So companies would rather not risk it. Moderators also only have a few seconds to decide if something should be deleted or not.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#192

Post by sunaookami »

SoftTalker wrote: post #152
sunaookami wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this just leads to more censorship without any option to appeal.

Nobody has a right to be published.

Then what is freedom of speech if every plattform deletes your content? Does it even exist? Facebook and co. are so ubiquitous, we shouldn't just apply normal laws to them. They are bigger than governments.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#193

Post by janderson215 »

prng2021 wrote: post #151
janderson215 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious of other perspectives and conclusions on this. Why do you think Facebook is the responsible party and not the purveyors of the content that caused them PTSD? From my perspective, Facebook hired people to prevent this content from reaching a wider audience. Thanks for any insight you can provide.

I never said Facebook is the responsible party. I’m saying these workers deserve our sympathy and I’m saying it’s not a case of people who had a simple choice but willingly chose a job that caused them PTSD. I don’t think Facebook is blameless though. They practically brag about their $40B of AI spend per year and absolutely brag about how advanced their AI is. You can’t focus some of your R&D to flag content that’s…

Very good point. Thanks for taking the time to respond and for your thoughtfulness!

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#194

Post by bigfatkitten »

chimeracoder wrote: post #139
HenryBemis wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't mention the year(s), but I recently listened to Jordan Peterson's podcast episode 503. One Woman’s War on P*rnhub | Laila Mickelwait. I will go ahead and assume that on the wild/carefree time of PornHub, when anyone could be able to upload anything and everything, from what that lady said, the numbers of pedophilia videos, bestiality, etc. was rampant.

> You don't mention the year(s), but I recently listened to Jordan Peterson's podcast episode 503. One Woman’s War on P*rnhub | Laila Mickelwait. Laila Mickelwait is a director at Exodus Cry, formerly known as Morality in Media (yes, that's their original name). Exodus Cry/Morality in Media is an explicitly Christian organization that openly seeks to outlaw all forms of pornography, in addition to outlawing abortion…

As far as I can tell, Facebook is still terrible.

I have a throwaway Facebook account. In the absence of any other information as to my interests, Facebook thinks I want to see flat earth conspiracy theories and CSAM.

When I report the CSAM, I usually get a response that says "we've taken a look and found that this content doesn't go against our Community Standards."

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#195

Post by bigfatkitten »

hinkley wrote: post #23
para_parolu wrote: post #7

One of few fields where AI is very welcome

I’m wondering if, like looking out from behind a blanket at horror movies, if getting a moderately blurred copy of images would reduce the emotional punch of highly inappropriate pictures. Or just scaled down tiny. If it’s already bad blurred or as a thumbnail don’t click on the real thing.

This is more or less how police do CSAM classification now. They start with thumbnails, and that's usually enough to determine whether the image is a photograph or an illustration, involves penetration, sadism etc without having to be confronted with the full image.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#196

Post by PittleyDunkin »

itake wrote: post #144
PittleyDunkin wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the problem there is the AI aspect

My understanding was the FP risk. Everything was on device. People designed images that were FPs of real images.

FP? Let us know what this means when you have a chance. Federal Prosecution? Fake Porn? Fictional Pictures?

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#197

Post by HPsquared »

narrator wrote: post #66
nappy-doo wrote: post #4

I worked at FB for almost 2 years. (I left as soon as I could, I knew it wasn't a good fit for me.) I had an Uber from the campus one day, and my driver, a twenty-something girl, was asking how to become a moderator. I told her, "no amount of money would be enough for me to do that job. Don't do it." I don't know if she eventually got the job, but I hope she didn't.

Yes, these jobs are horrible. However, I do know from accidently encountering bad stuff on the internet that you want to be as far away from a modern battlefield as possible. It's just kind of ridiculous how people think war is like Call of Duty. One minute you're sitting in a trench, the next you're a pile of undifferentiated blood and guts. Same goes for car accidents and stuff. People really underestimate how frag…

I'm no longer interested in getting a motorcycle, for similar reasons.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#198

Post by henry2023 »

sunaookami wrote: post #86
para_parolu wrote: post #7

One of few fields where AI is very welcome

No, this just leads to more censorship without any option to appeal.

We’re talking about Facebook here. You shouldn’t have the assumption that the platform should be “uncensored” when it clearly is not.

Furthermore, I’ll rather have the picture of my aunt’s vacation taken down by ai mistake rather than hundreds of people getting PSTD because they have to manually review if some decapitation was real or illustrated on an hourly basis.

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#199

Post by henry2023 »

sunaookami wrote: post #192
SoftTalker wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody has a right to be published.

Then what is freedom of speech if every plattform deletes your content? Does it even exist? Facebook and co. are so ubiquitous, we shouldn't just apply normal laws to them. They are bigger than governments.

If this was the case then Facebook shouldn’t be liable to moderate any content. Not even CSAM.

Each government and in some cases provinces and municipalities should have teams to regulate content from their region?

Re: More than 140 Kenya Facebook moderators sue after diagnoses of PTSD

#200

Post by paulryanrogers »

newsclues wrote: post #187
int_19h wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at scale.

Armies scale up. It’s like the original massive scale organization.

Scaling an army of rock swingers is a lot more work than giving one person an AK47 (when all who would oppose them have rocks).

(Thankfully in the US we worship the 2A and its most twisted interpretation. So our toddlers do shooter drills. /s)

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