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Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

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Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#291
post #219
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's making people whole for real monetary and property damages caused by PG&E's negligence. It's the settlement of a lawsuit, because PG&E was negligent and caused damage. Whether those people rebuild in Paradise, CA or move somewhere else with the money they received from the settlement is an entirely different proposition. This is not "subsidizing people in the country side". PG&E fucked up and now they have t…

Why is that a ratepayer’s prerogative rather than the home insurer’s?

Tort Law

(plus see tristors answer as to it being passed on and not coming from profits)

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#292
post #29

Commercial energy broker here - the only 2 'real' costs in your price are the wholesale and supplier costs. Choose suppliers that offer a fully-fixed electricity contract, so that made up variable costs such as distribution, network, etc are all factored into the unit rate that the supplier charges you for your contract. Avoid smart meters at all costs. Renewable / green contracts are always a lot more expensive than…

What's the reason to avoid smart meters?

Get a solar system and it can run the meter in reverse. Which is cool!

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes Type | yearly usage | average annual cost Low (flat or 1-bedroom house / 1-2 people) | 1,800 kWh | £669.95 Medium (3-bedroom house / 2-3 people) | 2,900 kWh | £943.36 High (5-bedroom house / 4-5 people) | 4,300 kWh | £1,291.34 source: https://www.britishgas.co.uk/energy/guides/average-bill.html

I was surprised to see how low electricity usage is. The fairer measurement is probably gas and electric, and your source says ‘ According to Ofgem, the average British household has 2.4 people living in it and uses 2,700 kWh of electricity and 11,500 kWh of gas. This works out at 242 kWh of electricity and 1,000 kWh of gas per month.’ We don’t have gas at home and use about 10,000kW/h here in New Zealand.

Yeah that's what's wild about it. Those prices are so high despite the fact that Brits use so much gas

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#294
post #247

An important reason that power is expensive in the UK is that it doesn't use zonal pricing and is effectively not giving the right price signals to consumers of power to move closer to where the cheap power is (e.g. data centers) or to conserve power when power is expensive; or producers of power to invest in power generation closer to where the power is scarce and expensive. Another point to make is that the nationa…

I just assume the real reason is that it's an island and there is relatively little competition. The government and power companies can work together to take whatever they want from you and you can't stop them.

How’s that not true for just about any country?

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#295
what's not mentioned is the consequence of having expensive power.

the average UK consumer consumes 1/3 of the power consumed by a US consumer.

which makes the average UK energy consumption is equivalent to one of a low-middle income country.

energy consumption is heavily tied to prosperity.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#296

An important reason that power is expensive in the UK is that it doesn't use zonal pricing and is effectively not giving the right price signals to consumers of power to move closer to where the cheap power is (e.g. data centers) or to conserve power when power is expensive; or producers of power to invest in power generation closer to where the power is scarce and expensive. Another point to make is that the nationa…

> Greg Jackson from Octopus (who are the largest energy operator in the UK) has been calling for this for some time. I don't live there but his name comes up a lot in several of the clean energy podcasts I follow. Smart person that has a lot of sensible things to say on this topic. I've got a lot of time for Octopus, which is an odd thing to say about a utility company. It's amazing how much of a difference it can ma…

i like octopus' style too

but i called them to sign up, and they told me my house was two apartments. it isn't. it never has been. and when i asked them to update their data, the operator said that isn't something she can do.

i would be a customer otherwise. sigh.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#297

An important reason that power is expensive in the UK is that it doesn't use zonal pricing and is effectively not giving the right price signals to consumers of power to move closer to where the cheap power is (e.g. data centers) or to conserve power when power is expensive; or producers of power to invest in power generation closer to where the power is scarce and expensive. Another point to make is that the nationa…

While it's true that the UK doesn't have nodal electricity pricing per unit of energy (and Ofgem, the regulator, agrees that this would have benefits[0]) I'm not sure we'd be in much of a different position if we had.

We haven't seen particularly rapidly growing demand as energy efficiency improvements and the closure of heavy industry has offset the general increase in energy intensity which happens over time as economies grow.

It's also not like there is no locational signal in the current system - the costs which large generators and large consumers pay to use the transmission network do depend in part on where they are connected and how much of the peak network capacity need they are responsible for (so called "triad charges").

There are also significant revenue incentives for building embedded (ie distribution-connected) generation.

Ultimately it's hard to avoid the fact that we closed down old reliable coal and gas generation without having the right replacements in place. Governments of all political stripes didn't want to take decisions (eg on new nuclear especially but also things like pumped storage hydro) because it was easier to pretend these changes were cost free.

0. https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/assessment-locational-...

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Greg Jackson from Octopus (who are the largest energy operator in the UK) has been calling for this for some time. I don't live there but his name comes up a lot in several of the clean energy podcasts I follow. Smart person that has a lot of sensible things to say on this topic. I've got a lot of time for Octopus, which is an odd thing to say about a utility company. It's amazing how much of a difference it can ma…

I must be the only person in the UK that has had an abysmal experience with Octopus, where they gave me a quote in writing, I attempted to sign up for it, couldn't due to "technical difficulties" on their end but got another email promising that the quote will be honoured once the difficulties are resolved....and of course once they finally fixed their system a month later they refused to honour it. I kept forwarding…

Yes, I am a landlord and have had multiple awful experiences with them on move in/out. The worst involved them referring my tenant to a debt collector for a totally incorrect bill (issued for a period after which they were not responsible for bills, and for electricity which hadn't been consumed) while we were still trying to get them to correct it. Customer service generally seems to stop responding after the first reply.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like they still had food rationing for years after WW2 To be fair the UK was completely broke and responsible for feeding half of Europe.

>responsible for feeding half of Europe. How so? The UK has not been self sufficient for food since before WWII. Hence food rationing for many years after the war ended.

As in importing and paying for it. Europe's economy was in pieces.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heat pumps are so affordable now, that just feels like a poor decision-making rather than an economic hardship. You could finance a heat pump and the savings would pay itself off in a year.

Yeah it's called apartment living. I hit nearly $350 in Oakland a couple years (and many PG&E rate hikes) ago in a 600 sq ft apartment. Even if I wanted to pay for a heat pump installation it's doubtful the landlord would've been on board. Last time I did the math, even with a 60% efficient furnace natural gas was cheaper than an electric heat pump. PG&E's electric rates are simply that much more expensive than their…

I pay about $60 a month to heat a well-insulated apartment in Copenhagen, similar size.

The average for an 80m² apartment is $1100/year.

After the 1970s fuel crises, Denmark invested in district heating and that seems to have paid off.

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