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Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

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Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#211

Post by nine_k »

switch007 wrote: post #112
graybeardhacker wrote: post #64

The graph shows the price for 3100 kWh. I'm not sure if that is a very low annual amount or a very very high monthly amount. The average US household uses 10,000 kWh annually ~833 kWh per month. So I'm guessing most Americans reading the article and looking at the interactive graph are thinking either: this is very cheap or very expensive, depending on whether they are assuming it's monthly or annual. In the US the a…

We mostly don't have AC, we have tiny houses, our heating is gas powered. Lots of showers aren't electric either. We don't use huge amounts compared to the US

Gladly would, but few can afford :-/

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#213

Post by elcritch »

graemep wrote: post #165
threeseed wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very misguided view of the situation. a) The transition to clean energy, transportation etc by Western countries funds the development and investment in new technologies. These then filter down to developing countries when the economies of scale kick in e.g. solar panels, electric cars. b) There are also other benefits to cleaner solutions than just trying to achieve net-zero. Reductions in pollution reduce…

I think you overestimate the importance of what the West does. The West no longer dominates the world economically. Things no longer filter down the rest of the world as simply as you think. China is a bigger economy than any Western economy than the US, and is growing. India is about as big as any European economy. Both, and many other countries are doing more and more of their own R & D and have their own agendas.

The West still leads in overall R&D. Even TSMC advanced nodes ultimately rely on western equipment and technology. New advancements in AI and vaccines were western as well.

China has made impressive bounds in R&D but still lags in many fields of scientific research. Much of their research output is derivative in my experience of reading a fair bit of research articles in several fields.

However China does lead in many fields of manufacturing. The western countries are far behind in there. That is important in terms of global leadership in renewable energy.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#214

Post by kergonath »

desas wrote: post #183
vixen99 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for long I suspect. There has been a rather marked exodus of millionaires from Britain since July as a result of a range of fiscal changes promised by the government. Some significant businesses have decided to relocate. Unrelated to this: now it's been found that a majority of Brits receive more in benefits than they contribute in taxes. Not a good outlook. Meanwhile it's estimated that the richest 1% of earners…

> now it's been found that a majority of Brits receive more in benefits than they contribute in taxes This has been the case for decades. It's not news.

But surely it’s Labour’s fault anyway. Damn socialists.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#215

Post by threeseed »

graemep wrote: post #165
threeseed wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very misguided view of the situation. a) The transition to clean energy, transportation etc by Western countries funds the development and investment in new technologies. These then filter down to developing countries when the economies of scale kick in e.g. solar panels, electric cars. b) There are also other benefits to cleaner solutions than just trying to achieve net-zero. Reductions in pollution reduce…

I think you overestimate the importance of what the West does. The West no longer dominates the world economically. Things no longer filter down the rest of the world as simply as you think. China is a bigger economy than any Western economy than the US, and is growing. India is about as big as any European economy. Both, and many other countries are doing more and more of their own R & D and have their own agendas.

a) China is third to US and EU in terms of GDP. And their economy is on a downwards trajectory.

b) Majority of the early R&D in solar, EVs etc came from the US. China has been vital in driving unit economics.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#216

Post by kergonath »

rjsw wrote: post #34
samatman wrote: post #6

Third option not discussed: have the military leverage its existing nuclear reactor competency to build a fleet of nationalized nuclear power generation stations. I'm not saying that they should tile the island with submarine-scale reactors, I'm saying that their supply chain for building those knows how to build nuclear power stations. The only thing which makes this prospect expensive, is the lack of political will…

On one level, your idea is being followed. Rolls-Royce build the UK submarine reactors and are working on developing small modular reactors [1] for civilian use. A big difference though is that UK (and US) submarine reactors use enriched uranium, SMRs won't. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_SMR

Last time I looked the Royce SMR design could use the same fuel supply chain and processing facilities, which is a huge plus compared to having to set up everything all over again for something like metallic fuel.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#217

Post by ZeroGravitas »

Maken wrote: post #154
louthy wrote: post #21

> The UK has achieved the fastest rate of grid decarbonisation among advanced economies. A lot of this progress occurred when renewables were still expensive, so we are stuck with a cost hangover. Luckily, renewables are getting much cheaper, so the tradeoffs in future policy are very different. A silver lining at least. I’m old, so won’t see the benefits of this I’m sure, but it’s still nice to know we’ve made some…

I would like to know what "fastest rate of grid decarbonisation" even means, because the UK is definitely not the nation with the largest share of renewable electricity production. I guess it measures how much energy production has transitioned from non-renewable to renewable sources in recent years.

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/carbon-intensity-electric...

They mean the rate of reduction in the metric graphed above.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#218

Post by chippiewill »

Maken wrote: post #154
louthy wrote: post #21

> The UK has achieved the fastest rate of grid decarbonisation among advanced economies. A lot of this progress occurred when renewables were still expensive, so we are stuck with a cost hangover. Luckily, renewables are getting much cheaper, so the tradeoffs in future policy are very different. A silver lining at least. I’m old, so won’t see the benefits of this I’m sure, but it’s still nice to know we’ve made some…

I would like to know what "fastest rate of grid decarbonisation" even means, because the UK is definitely not the nation with the largest share of renewable electricity production. I guess it measures how much energy production has transitioned from non-renewable to renewable sources in recent years.

It's the percentage cut in emissions relative to the 1990 bench line.

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#219

Post by alwa »

tristor wrote: post #20
tehlike wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a way it's subsidizing people in the country side.

No, it's making people whole for real monetary and property damages caused by PG&E's negligence. It's the settlement of a lawsuit, because PG&E was negligent and caused damage. Whether those people rebuild in Paradise, CA or move somewhere else with the money they received from the settlement is an entirely different proposition. This is not "subsidizing people in the country side". PG&E fucked up and now they have t…

Why is that a ratepayer’s prerogative rather than the home insurer’s?

Re: Why are UK electricity bills so expensive?

#220

Post by toast0 »

wat10000 wrote: post #50
doctorpangloss wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did PG&E cause the fire? They are legally obligated to serve those customers. It would be safer if they simply didn’t do that no? Wait till you read the facts behind this $41m bailout for 20 homes in one of the richest burbs of LA: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-10-29/feds-to-... You could argue that nobody should be living in a place guaranteed to be destroyed, whether by landslides or wildfires, but…

They did cause the fire. You could certainly argue that some sort of fire was inevitable, and that the fire would have been much less damaging if people hadn’t built their houses in such bad places. But the law doesn’t really care about that. You can’t avoid liability by arguing what would have happened or what should have happened. If your negligence causes a fire and that fire destroys a house, you’re liable for it…

> But the law doesn’t really care about that.

California has contribitory negligence. If the court determined it was negligent to build or keep a house in these places and that contributed to the loss, it must determine the share of loss attributable to each party and reduce the award. In some states, a party must have be less than half at fault to receive compensation, but California doesn't have a minimum, if you are 99% at fault and the other party is 1%, you can get 1% of your loss compensated.

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