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US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

reuters.com

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Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#141

Post by nozzlegear »

nadermx wrote: post #23
unitedscamerica wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing to do with speech.

So banning a public square has nothing to do with free speech? "A fundamental principle of the First Amendment is that all persons have access to places where they can speak and listen, and then, after reflection, speak and listen once more." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Packingham_v._North_Carolina

The US has a long history of banning foreign-owned media; newspapers, radio stations and tv stations have been the traditional targets. The Federal Communications Act set limits on foreign ownership of broadcast licenses by prohibiting foreign entities from owning more than a certain percentage of a broadcast licensee. This is actually a large part of the reason Rupert Murdoch, owner of Fox News, decided to become an American citizen.

Laws banning the foreign-ownership of influential apps seem like the modern day progression of the original FCA.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#142

Post by gtsop »

threeseed wrote: post #138
soheil wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a stupid argument. This is about censorship to American citizens and a conversation about losing their rights as an authoritarian state's victims.

a) Using TikTok is not a right. b) Removing the platform entirely is not censorship. Especially when everyone will just shift to Instagram, Youtube etc. c) This was a decision made by the US Congress. It is by definition not authoritarian.

> This was a decision made by the US Congress. It is by definition not authoritarian.

Clearly the US Congress represents the will of the majority...

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#143

Post by wordofx »

est wrote: post #126
Dylan16807 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If other countries ban US websites for specifically that reason, I applaud them. Especially if they do it without being hypocritical.

China will not only ban American companies or services next, Xi will probably ban the US dollar.

The funny thing is. China can talk about removing the U.S. dollar and trade when Yen. But they need a stable currency to convert between and so conversion is still done with the U.S. dollar. The U.S. dollar won’t be removed from trade in our life time.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#144

Post by gretch »

toofy wrote: post #108
gretch wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i absolutely do not magically trust billionaires just because they’re from the US… and i certainly don’t trust them more than i trust any government. there’s reasonable arguments that they’re more dangerous than governments. after everything we’ve seen these social media titans do, it’s absurd to trust them. What does it mean to "trust" them? Right now you are on hacker news, a social media site which is owned by y…

i’m not sure which part confuses you—it means what i said. i don’t magically trust them more than i trust any government. if the collective We have decided we don’t trust governments with algorithmic manipulation powers, why on earth are we trusting anyone with concentrated power: billionaires, churches, governments, etc… it would seem We have deemed social media to be incredibly dangerous. i’m not yet personally con…

>if the collective We have decided we don’t trust governments with algorithmic manipulation powers, why on earth are we trusting anyone with concentrated power: billionaires, churches, governments, etc

This is a crazy extrapolation.

The sale/ban of tik tok was forced because the US government/people do not trust a China owned company. That is not simply extrapolated to, "oh well if we don't trust the CCP, how can you trust any government or institution ever?"

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#145

Post by gtsop »

itake wrote: post #125
soheil wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a stupid argument. This is about censorship to American citizens and a conversation about losing their rights as an authoritarian state's victims.

American citizens can use the multitude of copy cat apps for their freedom of speech. If it was about freedom of speech the gov would have requested all the apps to censor the topics, not banning one app.

It is about freedom of speech, the freedom of China's speech within USA.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#146

Post by brookst »

gkanai wrote: post #100

Reciprocity is key. Google and Facebook and most Western web services are blocked in China. If that is the case, then there should be no complaint with blocking Bytedance/other Chinese apps in the West.

So… if China mistreats their citizens, reciprocity says we must mistreat ours?

You don’t fight censorship with censorship. That doesn’t stand up to even the most cursory thought. You fight censorship with openness.

As soon as you find yourself arguing that you have no choice but to engage in the same behaviors you claim to dislike, you have literally become the enemy.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#147

Post by tgma »

soheil wrote: post #124
supernetworks_ wrote: post #42

Americans can’t invest directly in Chinese companies and shouldn’t be obligated to host Chinese companies in their markets or be surprised when political whims ban them, since the lack of shared investment is political too. People clearly enjoy the content on there so the outcome is sad but it’s a complicated economic dynamic that is hard to grasp

[flagged]

No one is restricted from "free exchange of ideas." TikTok can divest and stay in the US market just fine. It is an ownership question, not a freedom of exchange of ideas question. There is no constitutional right for a foreign entity to do unrestricted business in the United States.

US Congress likewise does not give a fuck what you think though, unless you are a US Citizen and even then you get a single vote. The US population at large has decided on this by their representative government.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#148

Post by soheil »

threeseed wrote: post #138
soheil wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a stupid argument. This is about censorship to American citizens and a conversation about losing their rights as an authoritarian state's victims.

a) Using TikTok is not a right. b) Removing the platform entirely is not censorship. Especially when everyone will just shift to Instagram, Youtube etc. c) This was a decision made by the US Congress. It is by definition not authoritarian.

[flagged]

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#149

Post by est »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #139
solaarphunk wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google did everything right in terms of local execution to get all the required licensure and top talent, and then Sergey threw it away.

Both founders having grown up in communist block countries supposedly had something to do with their aversion. At least that’s what I heard (was working for MS china back then).

And the worst part of a Communism is "planned economy", e.g. the state decides which app/service is good or not.

Re: US lawmakers tell Apple, Google to be ready to remove TikTok from stores Jan. 19

#150

Post by mavelikara »

brookst wrote: post #146
gkanai wrote: post #100

Reciprocity is key. Google and Facebook and most Western web services are blocked in China. If that is the case, then there should be no complaint with blocking Bytedance/other Chinese apps in the West.

So… if China mistreats their citizens, reciprocity says we must mistreat ours? You don’t fight censorship with censorship. That doesn’t stand up to even the most cursory thought. You fight censorship with openness. As soon as you find yourself arguing that you have no choice but to engage in the same behaviors you claim to dislike, you have literally become the enemy.

> You don’t fight censorship with censorship. That doesn’t stand up to even the most cursory thought. You fight censorship with openness.

Can you explain this better without the assumption that it is self-evident?

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