DIY B&B • Hacker News Board

Re: DIY B&B

#101

Post by kirillzubovsky » Fri, Jul 13, 2012, 9:50 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #26

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the negative reaction to this here. The HN demographic is presumably tilted towards young men. What those criticisms seem to be neglecting is that those--particularly for apartment buildings--these temporary visitors impact beyond just you. In Australia, for example, one useful metric used by people when assessing apartment buildings to buy in is to look at the ratio of owner-occup…

Before you suggest that short-term rentals through AirBnB impact your living standards, you should try to rent your own place on AirBnB, as well as go travel and stay at AirBnB locations. You'd be pleasantly surprised that most visitors are decent human beings and don't have a mission to destroy someone's property. At least, this has been my experience with AirBnB.

Saying that "one person complained, once .." is just silly. Wherever you live, you may have a bad neighbor, but that doesn't mean your entire condo building is full of them. More so, if your bad neighbor buys a condo or a house right next door to yours, there's nothing you can do about it either. With short-term rentals, you at least know that less fitting people are only staying for a few days.

Finally, the only reason this issue is getting a lot of attention is because AirBnB is so freaking successful. Before them, you could find any short term rental, but you'd go to Craigslist to find it. You'd then have to connect with some shady people and pay them in cash, upon your arrival. With Airbnb, you get quality postings in great location, hosted by some really great folks. Travelers love it and use it. Because of that, hotel industry is getting upset. This small SF-based startup just kicked them where it hurts and shows no signs of slowing down. As a result, hotels are using outdated legal system in order to get their way.

Unless you never travel anywhere beyond your backyard or you just love to give up all your money to the hotel owners, you should be jumping up and down and cheering for AirBnB and for short-term guests in your area.

Re: DIY B&B

#102

Post by cgmorton » Fri, Jul 13, 2012, 9:50 PM UTC

untog wrote: post #35

dmk23 wrote: post #12

This is a classic example of anti-competitive market fixing, masquerading as a "regulation to protect consumers" or somesuch. There is no legitimate justification to infringe on a contract between a willing buyer and a willing seller, but to actually fight these crackdowns you have to spend lots of $$$ on local political campaigns in every municipality. Easier said than done. Unless that massive lobbying investment (…

There is no legitimate justification to infringe on a contract between a willing buyer and a willing seller Devils advocate: are food standards also a terrible imposition? The government insists on coming around to all the restaurants in the city and inspecting them to make sure that no-one will be poisoned or killed by the food they eat. How dare they stand in between a willing buyer and seller. Right? Right? Food s…

If my friend grows tomatoes in her back yard, should I be prohibited and fined for eating one without it first being inspected?

Inspections are there because large institutions don't always take the care they should, and as a consumer I sure as hell want -somebody- to look into it. If it weren't a government institution then I'd expect some sort of company to do it, and any restaurant that hadn't gotten inspected I would avoid.

On the other hand I -don't- worry when I use Air-BnB, because it has reviews that signify quality, and because there's not much that can go wrong with sleeping on a couch.

Re: DIY B&B

#103

Post by excuse-me » Fri, Jul 13, 2012, 9:51 PM UTC

tsieling wrote: post #59

cletus wrote: post #26

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the negative reaction to this here. The HN demographic is presumably tilted towards young men. What those criticisms seem to be neglecting is that those--particularly for apartment buildings--these temporary visitors impact beyond just you. In Australia, for example, one useful metric used by people when assessing apartment buildings to buy in is to look at the ratio of owner-occup…

What does gender have to do with opinions about whether someone should be able to rent out a room in a building they own? Renters don't tend to look after properties. No, that's why it's called rent and they have property managers or landlords who have that responsibility. That said, I've been in my rented place for 12yrs and take good care of it, as do other tenants in our building. Myth busted. How would I feel if…

On the other hand it is quite heartening that New York has improved to the point that this is now the top of the priority list for the police.

I remember New York when any murder of less than a dozen people wasn't worth bothering with.

Re: DIY B&B

#104

Post by hell0_th3r3 » Fri, Jul 13, 2012, 9:51 PM UTC

sureshv wrote: post #97

hell0_th3r3 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and in any case you are not even legally a owner you are a TENANT. before downvoting me, go and look at your deed. find the term "owner" anywhere on it. yes folks, the county has permitted you to enter into an agreement to make improvements on the land and resell that right to others. the county "owns" the land. most first-time home buyers are surprised to find out that they actually are only considered tenants

You still own the improvements (Home or other structures), if any on the land - hence homeowner...

yes, you own the improvements, but the point of stipulating you as a TENANT is to permit the county to make and enforce rules, since your improvement is ultimately on their land. not much to argue here, counties have been making and enforcing rules for centuries, there is no loophole to exploit

this is why, for example, foreclosure evictions often involve the sheriff's office - the county is protecting their own property rights. also, mineral rights, right to dispose of hazardous waste, etc etc

Re: DIY B&B

#105

Post by stephencanon » Fri, Jul 13, 2012, 9:52 PM UTC

rprasad wrote: post #96

nostromo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're forgetting that this problem is already solved by contract law. Tenants sign agreements not to rent out their units all the time. Home owner's associations often have rules against short-term rentals as well. If you don't like the idea of short-term rentals in your neighborhood or building, choose one protected by one of these types of contracts. In fact, they're so common, you probably already have such prote…

Once you have children (or nieces/nephews), there is a 100% chance that you will feel differently about short-term rentals. Long-term rentals indicate tenants that are stable enough to at least afford the lease. They are subject to at least some vetting (including background checks) prior to moving in. Short term tenants can be anyone. No background checks are conducted.

There's a 100% chance that I won't.

Strangers, even unvetted ones, almost never pose a danger to children. The vast majority of harm done to children is done by friends and family. Having more strangers around makes your kids safer, if anything.

Re: DIY B&B

#106

Post by rprasad » Fri, Jul 13, 2012, 9:52 PM UTC

danking00 wrote: post #78

cletus wrote: post #26

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the negative reaction to this here. The HN demographic is presumably tilted towards young men. What those criticisms seem to be neglecting is that those--particularly for apartment buildings--these temporary visitors impact beyond just you. In Australia, for example, one useful metric used by people when assessing apartment buildings to buy in is to look at the ratio of owner-occup…

I'd like to focus solely on the issue of "your neighbours didn't sign up for you opening a hotel". Of course my neighbors have a right to not be unreasonably disturbed by my own existence. Most communities have noise violation laws and other citations for creating an undesirable atmosphere. The folks offering short-term rents are not excused from such laws. Why do we need new laws? If your neighbor's short-term tenna…

And what will that solve? In a day or two the tenants will be gone, replaced by other loud assholes. The complaint solves nothing, as the neighbor has no reason to punish the original assholes who have already left.

The assholes problem is why we have restrictions against short-term leases in so many areas. (Most such restrictions predate AirBNB, despite what the article would have you believe.)

Re: DIY B&B

#107

Post by sopooneo » Fri, Jul 13, 2012, 9:53 PM UTC

rprasad wrote: post #96

nostromo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're forgetting that this problem is already solved by contract law. Tenants sign agreements not to rent out their units all the time. Home owner's associations often have rules against short-term rentals as well. If you don't like the idea of short-term rentals in your neighborhood or building, choose one protected by one of these types of contracts. In fact, they're so common, you probably already have such prote…

Once you have children (or nieces/nephews), there is a 100% chance that you will feel differently about short-term rentals. Long-term rentals indicate tenants that are stable enough to at least afford the lease. They are subject to at least some vetting (including background checks) prior to moving in. Short term tenants can be anyone. No background checks are conducted.

While we might infer it, you will notice that the parent poster did not indicate his feelings about short term rentals one way or another.

Re: DIY B&B

#108

Post by adrr » Fri, Jul 13, 2012, 9:53 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #26

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the negative reaction to this here. The HN demographic is presumably tilted towards young men. What those criticisms seem to be neglecting is that those--particularly for apartment buildings--these temporary visitors impact beyond just you. In Australia, for example, one useful metric used by people when assessing apartment buildings to buy in is to look at the ratio of owner-occup…

If you plan to be in your house for a long time, driving down property values is a good thing as you will have lower property tax. I never thought property value was a good argument. Its not constrained by law or morals. Its all about demand. For example, a minority neighborhood will have lower property values for a similar white neighborhood. Now apply your logic about property values. The thing about bars and brothels, is that they are public nuisances. Bars are loud and brothels you have people coming(no pun intended) and going all night.

A better argument would be about health regulations and competition. It is unfair advantage for these home motels because they don't have to abide by regulations and aren't even required to be insured/bonded. There's also a public safety risk since health regulations aren't being followed.

Re: DIY B&B

#109

Post by rprasad » Fri, Jul 13, 2012, 9:54 PM UTC

tgrass wrote: post #46

sp332 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

edit OK I misunderstood. skip this post :) Yes, of course. Starting with the obvious, your landlord could just throw you out. Your agreement almost certainly prevents you from making significant changes to the structure of the building. You can't sell the property. Your rights are much, much less than your neighbor.

"As proxied BY my landlord" I am speaking of my rights in the community, not to the property. That is, should there be a speed bump on the street, should a WalMart be allowed to build on the condemned lot around the corner.

If you are a voter, you have the same rights by law, and this would apply to the issues you brought up.

If you are not a voter, you do not and should not have the same rights because your social and economic investment in the community is not as great as your landlord's, or your underwater neighbor's.

Re: DIY B&B

#110

Post by larrys » Fri, Jul 13, 2012, 9:56 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #26

I guess I shouldn't be surprised at the negative reaction to this here. The HN demographic is presumably tilted towards young men. What those criticisms seem to be neglecting is that those--particularly for apartment buildings--these temporary visitors impact beyond just you. In Australia, for example, one useful metric used by people when assessing apartment buildings to buy in is to look at the ratio of owner-occup…

"negative reaction to this here. The HN demographic is presumably tilted towards young men."

I'm pretty sure you could actually correlate with life experiences as well (even though age and life experience correlate).

Someone who has not been burned and who hasn't seen or experienced some negative consequence of being open is going to tend to have a negative reaction when something like this is discussed. They don't know what they don't know.