macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive • Hacker News Board

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#201

Post by SXX » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 9:09 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #166

SXX wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft has joined Open Invention Network a while ago and AFAIK (though I can be wrong) Valve is also member of OIN. They can't really attack anyone using their patents now. And Valve is not exactly a small startup that's possible to sue into debt. Even though they're much smaller by headcount they certainly do have money and desire to fight any kind of legal battles. And with amount of goodwill Valve has from it's…

It is as easy as having Windows and XBox APIs that Proton isn't able to easily replicate, while requiring them for Windows Store and XBox Game Pass. Valve got lucky with UWP. No need for patents. Also there is the whole question Microsoft has outlived its founders, will Valve be able to do the same, and those that come after Gabe will they sell it, what would their view be regarding Proton, and so on.

> It is as easy as having Windows and XBox APIs that Proton isn't able to easily replicate, while requiring them for Windows Store and XBox Game Pass.

This will do more damage to Microsoft's position rather than Valve. They already lost current generation of console war and weakening their positions further by breaking compatability would't do them any good. Also Apple eating into their laptop market share by ARM offerings and have it's own compatability layers for graphical APIs.

Microsoft cant do much of anti-competetive vendor lock-in by technical means now. It was possible for them to stop something like Open Source community efforts, but likes of Valve and Apple are so much more resourceful. Everything they do on Windows can and will be reverse engineered.

> Also there is the whole question Microsoft has outlived its founders, will Valve be able to do the same, and those that come after Gabe will they sell it, what would their view be regarding Proton, and so on.

Here I'd tend to agree. There is a huge questions whatever Valve-after-Gabe can continue as it's now.

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#202

Post by lukeh » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 9:11 AM UTC

wrs wrote: post #116

threeseed wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked at Apple a while ago and it was a WebObjects app. So I would bet that it was built at NeXT and brought across. It's in the archive going back to 1999: https://web.archive.org/web/19991009144258/http://bugreport....

No, I used Radar in the pre-NeXT days. I even still have the state diagram mug from when it was introduced in the early 90s. At that point it was a client-server app, because the web didn’t exist yet. Now, it may be that the Apple bug database is always called Radar, regardless of implementation, like the Dread Pirate Roberts.

Radar was always Apple, I think NeXT had their own issue tracker called Recall. However when I worked on Rhapsody in 1997 issues were tracked with Radar.

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#203

Post by ahartmetz » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 9:12 AM UTC

Pikamander2 wrote: post #192

ClassyJacket wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even worse, now some apps are not allowing screenshots. That's bullshit, it's my phone, I should be able to screenshot whatever the hell I want.

The wildest one I've seen is Chrome on Android not allowing screenshots in Incognito mode. I'm struggling to understand the rationale there except maybe to prevent people from accidentally screenshotting sensitive stuff like porn or domestic violence resources? Either way, it's really not something the app should have control over.

My guess would be to stop surveillance apps from taking screenshots - is that a thing?

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#204

Post by jval43 » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 9:13 AM UTC

leni536 wrote: post #137

dymk wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory I can make bluetooth and wifi and deep-sleep work with Linux, but am I actually able to fix it? No, and not for a lack of trying. If we're talking about practical ability to fix what goes wrong with my daily driver, then macOS still wins hands down.

All of those work. As for bluetooth, I can connect multiple bluetooth headphones and playback audio at the same time. This is a bit fiddly, but I wouldn't even know where to start on some other systems.

Bluetooth on Windows is a nightmare too. Headphones, keyboards, mice etc might work initially, but at some point they don't connect anymore and it's almost impossible to fix. Mac is better in that regard, unpairing and repairing usually works. On Windows it's just broken.

It's why I only use hardware with fixed dongles (Jabra, Logitech, etc).

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#205

Post by IshKebab » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 9:14 AM UTC

miki123211 wrote: post #178

talldayo wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple is about the only company that allows you to run any decently sized LLMs on a laptop Comments like these make me wonder if people even use different computers anymore or if they just say stuff and hope that it's right.

Apple is the only company that makes integrated GPUs that are actually any good, and even their CPUs are really well-optimized for these sorts of workloads. They also build their RAM in a way that makes it suitable for both CPU and GPU uses. This means you don't have separate CPU RAM and GPU VRAM, it's all just memory. If you get more RAM for your Macbook, that automatically means more memory you can use for LLM infe…

Haven't laptops used integrated RAM for decades? It was always considered to be a bad thing in the past.

I guess because the integrated graphics was always weak?

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#206

Post by raverbashing » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 9:17 AM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #145

submeta wrote: post #100

This is bad. - Just recently I broke my system badly. So I decided to erase my system and re-setup from time machine. After several unsuccessful attemts I realized that my Time Machine backup (1.45 tb) exceeded my ssd capacity (1 tb). I did research, and learned not to prune my Time Machine backups. As that may corrupt it. So after several days and failed attempts to restore from time machine and after some research…

I've really been noticing how Apple software quality has been on a slow decline since Snow Leopard. I look at some of their older source code and it's a joy to read! Nowadays, my daily travails with restarting Xcode multiple times a day to work around bugs (package blahblah is not available) have really worn thin (I mean, Xcode has always had problems, but not THIS bad). Add to that the fact that the "system data" on…

Yeah

Let me guess, the best engineers are working on iPad/iPhone apps today and MacOS is relegated to code fixes and people building for the "common user" that doesn't know what a drive is

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#207

Post by addaon » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 9:21 AM UTC

LeoPanthera wrote: post #112

redmajor12 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like the lesson learned here from reading your travail is not to invest in an ecosystem that makes it difficult to do a standard operation.

Are we reading different comments? Because the only reason he had problems is because he didn't do anything standard. He futzed with his backups instead of letting the OS take care of it, and that's the only reason he had any trouble. If you let Time Machine doing it's thing, restoring from a backup is fast and painless. (Though it's been years since I had to restore a Mac for any reason. It makes me wonder what he w…

> restoring from a backup is fast and painless.

Had to restore recently. Was painless, but most definitely not fast. Took 24 - 36 hours to restore a 1 TB drive with < 400 GB in use after restore.

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#208

Post by keyle » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 9:22 AM UTC

No one really complained with 15.1 and macOS completely blocking software that is "untrusted".

You know the "move to bin" popup, which you used to unblock in the past by cmd+clicking the binary, or later via the settings menu for privacy & security (insane in its own right!)

Since 15.1, you're done and dusted. Unsigned/untrusted binaries simply will not run on macOS, regardless of how much you trust them to be. Thanks Apple.

That is a big deal, a really big deal... For the music industry, many industries and consumer grade software, such as game installers from GOG, etc. They simply don't open anymore once you install them fresh.

I raged for about 15 mins at these idiots at Apple for making such a breaking change to user space.

This is clearly not to protect the user as much as it is closing the walled garden onto users. Disgusting, silent move, in a minor release.

Thankfully I found the solution in

        xattr -d com.apple.quarantine ~/binary

But what do I do once this doesn't work anymore? I really wonder. I really like the M1-M4 chips. I can't stand listening to a fan anymore. If this keeps going south I will be jumping ship to the first distro that supports this hardware properly.

A sad state of affairs. macOS is a beautiful OS with its problems but very workable. Apple is slowly picking at it and worsening it, mostly, throughout the years. Long live Snow Leopard!

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#209

Post by rollcat » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 9:22 AM UTC

xyst wrote: post #17

Apple just can’t add features to their OS without breaking existing ones. Probably used Apple Intelligence to QA the OS release. Steve Jobs would be disgusted at what his company has become. “Just works”, my ass

macOS has been in a slow, steady decline for many years. Every major (or even minor) release brings new bugs, that often go unaddressed for months; the yearly mad push for new features leaves no room to fix things.

At this point, I've installed an MDM profile to block major updates - planning to stick to 14.x until it's EOL, or only upgrading to an x.7 or x.8 when it's out.

I really, really wish someone high up at Apple took a long hard look at OpenBSD release notes https://www.openbsd.org/76.html>, and used that as a compass for planning the next macOS release. But apparently it's more important to chase the trends now.

Re: macOS 15.2 breaks the ability to copy the OS to another drive

#210

Post by pjmlp » Sat, Dec 14, 2024, 9:27 AM UTC

SXX wrote: post #201

pjmlp wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is as easy as having Windows and XBox APIs that Proton isn't able to easily replicate, while requiring them for Windows Store and XBox Game Pass. Valve got lucky with UWP. No need for patents. Also there is the whole question Microsoft has outlived its founders, will Valve be able to do the same, and those that come after Gabe will they sell it, what would their view be regarding Proton, and so on.

> It is as easy as having Windows and XBox APIs that Proton isn't able to easily replicate, while requiring them for Windows Store and XBox Game Pass. This will do more damage to Microsoft's position rather than Valve. They already lost current generation of console war and weakening their positions further by breaking compatability would't do them any good. Also Apple eating into their laptop market share by ARM off…

Apple has 10% of worldwide desktop market, and no presence on servers and cloud. They aren't eating anyone's lunch, not even on mobile, where Android rules world wide.

Microsoft also owns the PC, besides XBox, Valve is a guest and should not forget how many studios are owned by Microsoft.

And with a Microsoft friendly US administration, maybe even Valve-after-Gabe can become part of Microsoft.