681–690 of 870 posts
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The single bureacrat in question was flagged, investigated, and removed from contact with veterans. Their action in suggesting MAID was not policy, was rapidly caught, and was the subject of a very public inquiry. Had the suggestion been followed up by the veterens in question there were layers in place, interviews and checks, to make sure that MAID was both desired and appropriate.
This is like trusting people to behave while owning guns. Curse of knowledge writ large.
No one was killed against their will here.
There's a legitimate debate to be had on the question of whether it was even wrong to alert an injured veteren that MAID was an option given they had the free will and the gumption to reply No way, Feck off, Not interested.
The onus here should be on secondary interviews sorting out whether a person really did have insurmountable chronic pain and problems or whether they were depressed and lacked resources to deal with a situation.
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Yes, "when they cannot reasonably be expected to prolong life" is key, since there's some discussion in other parts of the thread about withholding nutrition as a form of euthanasia, which Catholic teaching is very much not okay with.
I think there is a ton of wiggle room in the words prolong, burdensome, or discomfort
Here's the link to the OG https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/docu... It's some legalese.
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It’s hard to ask this in a non-confrontational way, so I’ll just come out with it: How do you square that with the modern Catholic church’s systemic support of sexual abuse of minors? I mean this in the most inquisitive way possible. An organization’s what it does; the modern Catholic Church (leaders) have supported some horrible things. How do you separate out the good bits from the bad bits?
Every single organization that interacted with children pre-2000 has sex scandals. Boy Scouts, myriad public school districts, the Congressional page system, youth sports. It attracts pedophiles. Now we are all much more aware of the dangers. https://x.com/rothmus/status/1828751103955292508?s=46
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Of course! I'm biased (as a Catholic), but I personally find the Church's moral stances to be fairly well thought out and systematic. But well thought out people starting from different axioms will often disagree with each other's conclusions!
It’s hard to ask this in a non-confrontational way, so I’ll just come out with it: How do you square that with the modern Catholic church’s systemic support of sexual abuse of minors? I mean this in the most inquisitive way possible. An organization’s what it does; the modern Catholic Church (leaders) have supported some horrible things. How do you separate out the good bits from the bad bits?
The church got less powerful, but they kept the restrictions on priests. Who wants to be a person with no power and no sex? People who are strange or who have ulterior motives.
If the power of the church was restored, I think the abusive priest issue would be gone in a generation. Or if they remove the sex prohibition, of course.
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> Actively preventing someone from providing assistance is. Sure, but this happens with legalization, too. Only licensed physicians can assist in suicide. Other attempts to assist will result in state violence. Most people trying to provide assistance won't be licensed physicians. Which is a completely different effort than the one intended to execute those undesirable to the market. God forbid we support people with…
Providing assistance isn’t limited to handing someone pills, making the appropriate calls is assistance and a tough moral choice for many. Also, as a purely practical matter physicians can provide both humane options and a clearer separation between direct assistance and murder. Though obviously there’s other possibilities, it’s a tricker issue than it might at first appear.
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These are all excellent examples of how MAID should be used, I think the concerning thing is the widening of the eligibility criteria - especially when things like mental illness start to make you eligible. Like... If your illness makes you suicidal... Is offering assisted suicide REALLY the best we can do? That starts to feel a lot like "eghh you're too hard for society to care about... We'll just let you die". As h…
I'm with @navane, you're concerned about what is very much a minority edge case. Still, I'll bite - it's a good thing. Why? Well an official path to suicide, as per the arrangements already in place, comes with layers of professional guidance and counselling. It's not a dispassionate "wave 'em through" treadmill of corpse creation. The best thing for young people with suicidal affixations is to talk to them and take…
"An expert committee reviewing euthanasia deaths in Canada’s most populous province has identified several cases in which patients asked [AND WERE APPROVED] to be killed in part for social reasons such as isolation and fears of homelessness, raising concerns over approvals for vulnerable people in the country’s assisted dying system."
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"Another case focused on Ms B, a woman in her 50s suffering from multiple chemical sensitivity syndrome, who had a history of mental illness including suicidality and post-traumatic stress disorder. She was socially isolated and asked to die largely because she could not get proper housing, according to the report."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/oct/17/canada-nonterm...
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My dad (age 75) got diagnosed with ALS and within a month of the diagnosis opted for MAID. He had only just lost control of one leg, but he knew what was coming. As much as we begged him for more time, he didn't want any of it. Till his dying breath he kept repeating how thankful he was that he lived in a country that didn't force him to live on when he didn't want to. He was a clear Track 1 case, and I realize Track…
Yeah man, it does suck. I do wish I'd had more time with both my parents, they both died really early in their 50s, I don't think you can ever have "enough" time. I wish my mother had been given the option in her early 50s, the number of people punished by authoritarian governments that deny self determinism and force people to be put through experiences literally worse than torture is mind boggling, I cannot fathom…
Unfortunately there are situations where things are a bit different from that. For example, where a parent is (very) abusive. :(