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Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

bbc.com

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Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#581

Post by PittleyDunkin »

Retric wrote: post #324
PittleyDunkin wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone unable to move is unable to take their own life without assistance. Denying this assistance isn't really "tyranny", though, even if you do accept that suicide is a right.

> Denying this assistance isn't really "tyranny" Actively preventing someone from providing assistance is. There’s a big difference between not doing something yourself and actively preventing someone else from providing assistance.

> Actively preventing someone from providing assistance is.

Sure, but this happens with legalization, too. Only licensed physicians can assist in suicide. Other attempts to assist will result in state violence. Most people trying to provide assistance won't be licensed physicians.

Which is a completely different effort than the one intended to execute those undesirable to the market. God forbid we support people with anything other than a suicide implement.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#582

Post by jacobgkau »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #229
graeme wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard for that is very loose. There's no requirement that the death be imminent. Iirc it basically means the condition could kill you, at some point. This even applies if treatment would prevent death. It's whether the condition is capable of killing.

No, the standard is not "very loose". It is clear, and strict. And you also got the "condition could kill you" part wrong. So it's all wrong. You can read about eligibility criteria here[0], specifically what constitutes a "grievous and irremediable medical condition". Like, believe it or not, but this legislation took a very long time to write, and quite a bit of thought was put into it. I hate to post the link for…

From your link:

> experience unbearable physical or mental suffering from your illness, disease, disability or state of decline that *cannot* be relieved under conditions that you consider acceptable

That is indeed "very loose," and is not "clear" or "strict." Any mental condition that the patient thinks cannot be acceptably relieved now qualifies (or will after March 17, 2027, when that document says mental illnesses will begin to qualify, because it will somehow become more right on that date than when the law was passed).

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#583

Post by navane »

llamaLord wrote: post #574
pj_mukh wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad (age 75) got diagnosed with ALS and within a month of the diagnosis opted for MAID. He had only just lost control of one leg, but he knew what was coming. As much as we begged him for more time, he didn't want any of it. Till his dying breath he kept repeating how thankful he was that he lived in a country that didn't force him to live on when he didn't want to. He was a clear Track 1 case, and I realize Track…

These are all excellent examples of how MAID should be used, I think the concerning thing is the widening of the eligibility criteria - especially when things like mental illness start to make you eligible. Like... If your illness makes you suicidal... Is offering assisted suicide REALLY the best we can do? That starts to feel a lot like "eghh you're too hard for society to care about... We'll just let you die". As h…

That concerns a small minority of cases, the vast majority is elderly dying people who want to keep their dignity. By steering the discussion to that minority, which even itself is still debatable, you risk flushing the child with the bath water.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#584

Post by rahimnathwani »

gosub100 wrote: post #577
rahimnathwani wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can understand this intellectually/rationally, but I can't imagine actually making such a decision.

I could see making the decision and then chickening out as soon as it was time to get to business.

Me too.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#585

Post by jacobgkau »

neom wrote: post #423
GordonS wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but there's a problem - the UK is in a real mess! Social services, medical services, all the services are underfunded and crumbling. There is a cost of living crisis as wages have barely moved in 15 years, food banks are everywhere, and now "multibanks" are popping up. Our country first needs to ensure that people can choose to live , and if needed be cared for; nobody should feel pushed into assisted dying be…

Google just results in weird crypto junk, so if you'll pardon me: what is a "multibank"?

The link the other person posted didn't make it as immediately clear as a definition I found-- it's basically multiple types of charity banks (e.g. food bank, clothing bank, bedding bank, hygiene bank) operated as one entity.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#586

Post by navane »

gosub100 wrote: post #562
fellowniusmonk wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah man, it does suck. I do wish I'd had more time with both my parents, they both died really early in their 50s, I don't think you can ever have "enough" time. I wish my mother had been given the option in her early 50s, the number of people punished by authoritarian governments that deny self determinism and force people to be put through experiences literally worse than torture is mind boggling, I cannot fathom…

I think it would take flat-earth level idiocy to think you need the government's blessing to "self-determine".

It's not about blessing, it's about people being sent to jail for colluding with a self determinator.

People get sent to jail for assisting someone, even if it's just to buy some stuff.

That's government overreach.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#588

Post by neom »

jacobgkau wrote: post #567
neom wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't access MAID in Canada any faster than 90 days unless you are at immediate risk of losing your faculties such that you couldn't make the choice. You need multiple specialists to assess you and sign off on it etc.

Really? Then how did the man in guyzero's anecdote do it in less than a week?

I'm not sure, I assume good faith on HN, so I'd guess that it was in the works for a a while? But yeah, it's 100% not a process that can be done in a week, like, for sure.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#589

Post by defrost »

llamaLord wrote: post #574
pj_mukh wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad (age 75) got diagnosed with ALS and within a month of the diagnosis opted for MAID. He had only just lost control of one leg, but he knew what was coming. As much as we begged him for more time, he didn't want any of it. Till his dying breath he kept repeating how thankful he was that he lived in a country that didn't force him to live on when he didn't want to. He was a clear Track 1 case, and I realize Track…

These are all excellent examples of how MAID should be used, I think the concerning thing is the widening of the eligibility criteria - especially when things like mental illness start to make you eligible. Like... If your illness makes you suicidal... Is offering assisted suicide REALLY the best we can do? That starts to feel a lot like "eghh you're too hard for society to care about... We'll just let you die". As h…

I'm with @navane, you're concerned about what is very much a minority edge case.

Still, I'll bite - it's a good thing.

Why? Well an official path to suicide, as per the arrangements already in place, comes with layers of professional guidance and counselling.

It's not a dispassionate "wave 'em through" treadmill of corpse creation.

The best thing for young people with suicidal affixations is to talk to them and take their concerns seriously, correctly established this could arguably reduce teen suicides by recognising the problem, giving the at risk a place to go, requiring them to detail why they want to die, etc.

If you want to take a dim view of faceless government motivations then you might ask yourself why such a souless collective would want to deprive itself of a potential taxpayer before they've even really started to chip in.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#590

Post by larme »

navane wrote: post #583
llamaLord wrote: post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are all excellent examples of how MAID should be used, I think the concerning thing is the widening of the eligibility criteria - especially when things like mental illness start to make you eligible. Like... If your illness makes you suicidal... Is offering assisted suicide REALLY the best we can do? That starts to feel a lot like "eghh you're too hard for society to care about... We'll just let you die". As h…

That concerns a small minority of cases, the vast majority is elderly dying people who want to keep their dignity. By steering the discussion to that minority, which even itself is still debatable, you risk flushing the child with the bath water.

The same logic applies to capital punishment
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