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Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

bbc.com

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Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#601

Post by lazyasciiart »

darth_avocado wrote: post #464
caseyohara wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who decides on the duration of the waiting period? Why can’t people be in charge of their own lives? Especially people in their 80s, they have earned the right to agency. It reminds me of OB/GYN providers that deny childless women sterilization procedures – even when they are in their 30s – ostensibly on the risk that the woman might change their mind about having children. Some people know things for certain and the…

> But denying a full grown adult control over their life decisions is cruel and unduly authoritarian. You’re assuming a clear state of mind and perfect circumstances. Suicidal thoughts are very common in depression. I would say giving people with depression access to euthanasia is more cruel than forcing them to seek help. Suicidal thoughts are also common in people who are struggling financially or people who have c…

It is horrifyingly cruel to deny someone the option of death without also solving the problem that made them want it.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#602

Post by SoftTalker »

guyzero wrote: post #131

My Canadian parents are in their 80's so naturally a lot of their friends of the same age are dying. And two of them have been via MAID. In one case, which was surprising to me, a man who had survived cancer - he was not terminal but certainly wasn't getting any better - elected to die via MAID after his wife died. She passed, he called his doctor and less than a week later he was also dead. He got a chance to visit…

If you make to your 80s you’re on borrowed time no matter what.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#604

Post by shkkmo »

taylorius wrote: post #230
shkkmo wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm partially with you, in that I do see tragedy in these choices. I see tragedy that we lack the cultural and economic institutions to support peope towards the end of life in ways (especially ones that don't make them feel like a burden.) However, I don't think the solution to that tragedy to to make people suffer through. I think the solution is more and better institutions that reduce that suffering so fewer peop…

Forgive me, but your last sentence seems like a platitude. What would such institutions look like, and how might they reduce the suffering of someone with, say, advanced dementia? I'm not trying to have a go btw - it genuinely seems an intractable problem to me.

I think dementia and euthanasia is already legally and morally very complicated so not sure that is the best example. I do think that dementia often causes problems due to strain on caregivers and cost of outside help. If you have systems of support and resources for these caregivers, then fewer people would be inclined to end their lives to avoid becoming such a huge burden. If you legalize euthanasia and have good frameworks for people to use to determine where their limit is, then people who don't want to become a burden aren't pushed to kill themselves while they still have time.

There are lots of ways we can change systems and institutions to change the choices people make and I see good people working to make that happen.

I guess it is a kind of a platitude. I'm not trying to claim that such changes are easy, simple, fast, or even obvious (though some may be.)

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#605

Post by LorenPechtel »

guyzero wrote: post #131

My Canadian parents are in their 80's so naturally a lot of their friends of the same age are dying. And two of them have been via MAID. In one case, which was surprising to me, a man who had survived cancer - he was not terminal but certainly wasn't getting any better - elected to die via MAID after his wife died. She passed, he called his doctor and less than a week later he was also dead. He got a chance to visit…

I would feel that way, also.

Losing a very long term partner is a horrible blow. You go through the grief to get to better times on the other side--but if there's no other side to get to, why go through it?

My memory is that the Canadian rules require more time than that so he probably had already set it up.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#606

Post by LorenPechtel »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #363
nicoburns wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not at all surprising to me! I fully expect to want to euthanise myself once I'm done with life (and I'm going to be pretty upset if it's not an option for me when it gets to that point). People tell me I'll change my mind (perhaps similarly to how people treat people who say they don't want kids). But I doubt I will. I've seen lot's of older people (and people who's lives are not good) still want this when it c…

I live in the neighbourhood in Canada with a lot of elder people. I mentioned in one of my previous comments as well, and MAiD is probably one of the best things that happened in our country in the past decade. I have distant relatives who took the MAiD way out (one because of the age, the other one terminal illness). It's not very uncommon to hear once every quarter in the coffee shop in my neighbourhood people chat…

I've been in many discussions over the decades about this--and I see a huge skew: those who have never seen someone have a bad death tend to think euthanasia is a bad thing, those that have had someone close die a bad death tend to have a recognition that there are situations worse than death.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#607

Post by cperciva »

nprateem wrote: post #377
giarc wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your first example, I suspect there was probably other things present you weren't made aware of. Currently the requirements in Canada include (only copy those relevant to your example). -have a serious and incurable illness, disease or disability (excluding a mental illness until March 17, 2027) -be in an advanced state of irreversible decline in capability -have enduring and intolerable physical or psychological…

It sounds like the last one is the get out of jail free card.

The "alleviated under conditions the person considers acceptable" clause is very broad, but doctors have to first agree that the person is suffering intolerably, so it's not entirely a blanket clause.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#608

Post by LorenPechtel »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #454
eastbound wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem I have with MAiD is I’m not sure the subject really decided it. Forged signatures do exist (a lot) and you’re only a socialist state away from trying to save on public health expenditures by incinerating unwilling patients after pretending their agreement. Without much trace than two witnesses who say “He said it”. Not like it already happened for handicapped people in Germany. I’m quite sure it already h…

No system is perfect, and at some point there will be fraud. From what I recall, at every single point the patient has the ability to stop the process up until the last minute. All patients require to be in a state of mind to keep making authorizations at every step. I understand your concerns, but I would be willing to take this risk, as I really want both my parents and everyone I know to have this option. Whether…

IIRC the patient can make a request in advance specifically covering the case of them being too out of it to consent. Obviously, in such a case if they're then out of it there's no final authorization needed.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#609

Post by agumonkey »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #474
guyzero wrote: post #131

My Canadian parents are in their 80's so naturally a lot of their friends of the same age are dying. And two of them have been via MAID. In one case, which was surprising to me, a man who had survived cancer - he was not terminal but certainly wasn't getting any better - elected to die via MAID after his wife died. She passed, he called his doctor and less than a week later he was also dead. He got a chance to visit…

I'm sorry but people that just lost their life partner a week ago are really not "of sound mind" when it comes to taking such kind of decision and it's criminal in my opinion to let them. What's next? We let teenagers choose to die after their first love breaks up with them? I'm neither against nor for euthanasia, but I also think the situations where it's the best solution for everyone are extremely rare.

Depends on the person but surviving this kind of damage can also equate to near existential death anyway.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#610

Post by wmoxam »

refurb wrote: post #517
fatbird wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"a now-suspended Veterans Affairs Canada caseworker.... which has now uncovered a total of four cases where veterans were allegedly offered MAID — all apparently by the same caseworker". One person. Not the gov't, not many gov't employees. One person who presented the option overzealously or inappropriately, leading to four people feeling pressured, out of, IIRC, 45,000 people annually choosing MAID.

One person...that we know of. The fact this one person did this, contradicts your earlier statement of "But we've found zero evidence since its introduction of its abuse, of its application as a cost-cutting measure, of it being forced on people."

Your assuming a motive in that case when none is known of.
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