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Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths
451–460 of 870 posts
Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths
#452Earlier quoted context omitted.
>> The corollary to the article is that almost all deaths in Canada result from severe or chronic medical conditions .. and now 5% of those cases are resolved via voluntary euthanasia. > A strong argument for euthanasia always was that it would be exceedingly rare, but 5% of all deaths is not exceedingly rare. You talked right past the actual point being made, to beat a straw man instead. Being downvoted or shunned f…
> You talked right past the actual point being made, to beat a straw man instead Your corolary, to me sounded like "It's not shocking at all that 5% of all deaths are euthanasia, it's simply the intended/logical outcome". Maybe I created a straw man. For me the arguments, narative, claimed outcome, scope, implications and all that for allowing something like euthanasia matter a lot. I hope we won't push back in horro…
It was my corollary (a simple restatement of the information presented in the article), not the person you addressed, and no, it's not at all shocking that 5% of terminal cases in or facing pallative care, experiencing or about to experience chronic pain, cognitive loss, functional decline and lose of autonomy and dignity choose to knowingly take advantage of legal euthanasia.
> the story could easily reach nazi Germany eugenics horror levels
Riiiigght. Sure. If you say so.
Better to let humans suffer rather than allow them to make a choice on their own terms. Got it.
Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths
#453Earlier quoted context omitted.
> how do you protect the people who don't want to go, being pressured or manipulated. I agree that if someone is really, independently and committedly deciding to go, you shouldn't stop them. But how do you express that test in a bureaucratic, legalistic framework? I would look into countries where euthanasia has been already implemented. It doesn't seem like it's a widespread problem, so apparently they made it work…
> I would look into countries where euthanasia has been already implemented. That's what puts me off of the idea in the first place. Cases like Christine Gauthier (a former army corporal and paralympian) who was offered euthanasia when trying to seek government disability benefits to install a wheelchair ramp. If it takes someone with existing fame to speak out about this, how many more people has this been pushed on…
> Just look at the end of the article. It gives several examples of the kind of thing that allows me as a utilitarian to say that the suffering of a few terminally ill is not as bad as the harassment of countless vulnerable people.
Countless vulnerable people haven't been harassed. There are 12 documented cases in the history of MAID in Canada where someone was allegedly offered MAID innapropriately. There have been inquests and reports that have counted them. Not one resulted in a death. Christine Gauthier's experience couldn't be substantiated when they reviewed her records, but they did find in that investigation that a single case worker had offered MAID to 4 veterans.
On the other hand there have been over 50k successful petitions for MAID most of which were for people with Cancer.
As a utilitarian, you should presumably look at the actual numbers, and balance the tens of thousands of people who chose not to suffer agonizing deaths against the 12 documented cases of people who were offered MAID as an option when they think they shouldn't have been.
Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths
#454Earlier quoted context omitted.
I live in the neighbourhood in Canada with a lot of elder people. I mentioned in one of my previous comments as well, and MAiD is probably one of the best things that happened in our country in the past decade. I have distant relatives who took the MAiD way out (one because of the age, the other one terminal illness). It's not very uncommon to hear once every quarter in the coffee shop in my neighbourhood people chat…
The problem I have with MAiD is I’m not sure the subject really decided it. Forged signatures do exist (a lot) and you’re only a socialist state away from trying to save on public health expenditures by incinerating unwilling patients after pretending their agreement. Without much trace than two witnesses who say “He said it”. Not like it already happened for handicapped people in Germany. I’m quite sure it already h…
No system is perfect, and at some point there will be fraud. From what I recall, at every single point the patient has the ability to stop the process up until the last minute. All patients require to be in a state of mind to keep making authorizations at every step. I understand your concerns, but I would be willing to take this risk, as I really want both my parents and everyone I know to have this option. Whether they choose it or not, I will always respect and support them at every step, but leaving them in agony and continuous suffering is not something I'm willing to overlook.
But I genuinely understand your concerns.
Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths
#455Earlier quoted context omitted.
The standard for that is very loose. There's no requirement that the death be imminent. Iirc it basically means the condition could kill you, at some point. This even applies if treatment would prevent death. It's whether the condition is capable of killing.
No, the standard is not "very loose". It is clear, and strict. And you also got the "condition could kill you" part wrong. So it's all wrong. You can read about eligibility criteria here[0], specifically what constitutes a "grievous and irremediable medical condition". Like, believe it or not, but this legislation took a very long time to write, and quite a bit of thought was put into it. I hate to post the link for…
I've spoken with the administrator of a province's MAID program who interprets the law. Have you spoken with anyone involved in administering and interpreting the requirements?
Cannot be reversed is modified by under conditions acceptable to them. There's no requirement that a treatment be acceptable to any objective standard, only to the patient and two medical professionals who sign off.
And there's no time limit on when the death is foreseeable to occur for a death to be classed as reasonably foreseeable. Only that it could do so.
It is possible that the administrator misunderstood the law but they're the one running the program.
Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths
#456Earlier quoted context omitted.
I live in the neighbourhood in Canada with a lot of elder people. I mentioned in one of my previous comments as well, and MAiD is probably one of the best things that happened in our country in the past decade. I have distant relatives who took the MAiD way out (one because of the age, the other one terminal illness). It's not very uncommon to hear once every quarter in the coffee shop in my neighbourhood people chat…
The problem I have with MAiD is I’m not sure the subject really decided it. Forged signatures do exist (a lot) and you’re only a socialist state away from trying to save on public health expenditures by incinerating unwilling patients after pretending their agreement. Without much trace than two witnesses who say “He said it”. Not like it already happened for handicapped people in Germany. I’m quite sure it already h…
You are so sure of this, yet you have no evidence at all. I'm not sure your problem, is what you think it is.
Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths
#457[flagged]
if you’re reducing the ethics of right to terminate one’s life to “far woke leftist diseases i don’t think you have anything valuable to contribute to the discussion
Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths
#458Earlier quoted context omitted.
I live in the neighbourhood in Canada with a lot of elder people. I mentioned in one of my previous comments as well, and MAiD is probably one of the best things that happened in our country in the past decade. I have distant relatives who took the MAiD way out (one because of the age, the other one terminal illness). It's not very uncommon to hear once every quarter in the coffee shop in my neighbourhood people chat…
The problem I have with MAiD is I’m not sure the subject really decided it. Forged signatures do exist (a lot) and you’re only a socialist state away from trying to save on public health expenditures by incinerating unwilling patients after pretending their agreement. Without much trace than two witnesses who say “He said it”. Not like it already happened for handicapped people in Germany. I’m quite sure it already h…
You call this "fraud," but aren't you describing murder? So in essence, you're suggesting that doctors are murdering people because of incentives?
Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths
#459My Canadian parents are in their 80's so naturally a lot of their friends of the same age are dying. And two of them have been via MAID. In one case, which was surprising to me, a man who had survived cancer - he was not terminal but certainly wasn't getting any better - elected to die via MAID after his wife died. She passed, he called his doctor and less than a week later he was also dead. He got a chance to visit…
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"In Christianity life is about suffering. You're basically earning heaven points." I think you're conflating WoW with other people's faith somehow. YMMV
Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths
#460Earlier quoted context omitted.
[flagged]
> In Christianity life is about suffering. You're basically earning heaven points. But when you no longer live for god but only for yourself there is no reason to suffer. I'm not sure that is true. And even if it would be true for Christianity, I'd guess the same could be said for Buddihsm [0]. Buddhism monks in particular seem to be a miserable lot, as they (try to?) never smile ... at least on photos as shown in te…
> is to believe that Jesus died for your sins and through accepting Jesus (not through works)
This is true in much of mainline Protestant Christianity, but it's less clear cut in the Catholic and Orthodox branches or in some of the hard-to-categorize groups (Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, etc). They still emphasize that it's only through Christ you can be saved, but they place varying degrees of emphasis on what you should be doing and why.
None I'm aware of says anything about heaven points through suffering, though.