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Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

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Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#221

Post by borski »

cebert wrote: post #165
AtlasBarfed wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd drop Tesla from that argument. No, not that the SC network is bad. Their CEO alienated 50% of their customer base with politics. This is going to be one of the most interesting case studies in brand management and advertising history. But you are probably correct. I think making the infrastructure act funding contingent on reliability metrics is pretty key. You know, if the money doesn't get yanked by the adminis…

I don’t think most people make purchasing decisions based on the personal politics of a firm’s CEO. It will be interesting to see how impactful it ends up being.

Most CEOs don’t attempt to directly influence an election to align with their personal politics by spending a quarter of a billion dollars on a candidate’s campaign, either.

Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#222

Post by borski »

elif wrote: post #160
NotSammyHagar wrote: post #32

Their strategy was to build them where there weren't other dcfc chargers, opening up new areas especially around outdoors places. Their chargers are much better maintained in general than the infamous Electrify America (they really struggle to fix EA chargers when they have problems, and they have problems) - there's a long story behind this. Rivian started before the plan to use superchargers was even envisioned, so…

Just came to say that Electrify America in late 2024 is NOT the Electrify America of 2023. Legitimately you are looking at >90% odds that all stalls will be working at full power. Idk how they got it together but knock on wood.

This is true. It has gotten way, way better.

Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#223

Post by borski »

ggreer wrote: post #120
no_wizard wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EV manufacturers (re: most car manufactures) are going to do all they can to get the government to subsidize this as much as possible. I noticed an explosion of EV charging stations where I live after the state government put incentives in to subsidize their build out. Other states have done it already and are doing it now. They're going to see the pattern of "I can get the government to subsidize this" and will hold…

It's important to distinguish Tesla from other companies. The others haven't figured out how to make chargers cheaply yet, so they're forced to ask for subsidies. That's why Tesla's bids on that Texas contract were so much lower than the competition. Tesla mass produces their charging stations in factories. Entire stations are assembled from modular units, mounted on a concrete slab, and shipped to the installation s…

Tesla has yet to ever produce a 1000V charging cabinet. Their v4 chargers that claim to be 1000V aren’t, because they are still driven by 400V cabinets.

Building 1000V cabinets is very very expensive, which is why Tesla is behind the curve and hasn’t done it yet.

EA cabinets are all 1000V. You are comparing apples and oranges.

And 400V is the past.

Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#224

Post by borski »

bobthepanda wrote: post #174
bsder wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And the convenience stores are the thing that makes the money at gas stations. Because the gas is expensive, you need to hold inventory (and have a tank that needs to be insured and inspected and ...) and a lot of the profit is going to huge oil companies. If you are running chargers, there is no inventory and the cost is whatever the electricty costs are. I suspect that chargers could actually be a profit center a…

EV stations have a lot more competition that doesn’t need to turn a profit; a person’s home. Nobody has home gas tanks to fill up their car. I don’t know many people buying electric without having a home charger.

Literally anyone who lives in an apartment.

Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#225

Post by osrec »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #19
izacus wrote: post #18

How did we get from a situation where you could just pay with cash/card for fuel to having monopolized single-brand car fueling stations?

When it started taking 30 minutes to "fill up" your car. High speed chargers can cost >$200k installed. A gas pump costs about $25k installed. If the average person spends 4 minutes at a pump, that comes out to: The time value of a slot at a super charger can be >$5 for each charge. The time value of a slot at a gas pump is ~$0.07 per fill up. The economics of a charging business are awful. High CapEx, few cars, not…

A gas pump relies on a significantly larger chain of infrastructure though. We just accept that it's quicker because it's already in place. No one factors in the time at the refinery etc etc.

Energy delivered in the from electricity isn't that bad or slow when you compare it fully, including the generation infrastructure.

I personally think we will move towards swappable pre-charged batteries at charging stations, which will drop the "refuel" time to something comparable to (or less than) petrol.

Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#226

Post by ninalanyon »

HdS84 wrote: post #205
peutetre wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contactless payment by card is mandated going forward: https://www.fleeteurope.com/en/new-energies/europe/article/f... So you won't have to sign up for anything else.

Yes, but currently that's always the most expensive option. I am driving a lot from Cologne to Bremerhaven. Depending on the spot where I stop, I would need an EWE, EnBW, Aral, ionity, eon, shell or some smaller card to get somewhat reasonable prices. Annoying.

Get yourself a Tesla account. I think all of the Tesla chargers between Cologne and Bremerhaven are open to any CCS compatible car; you just need the tesla app and register your credit card. Tesla is usually cheaper as well as more reliable.

But there are also services like ChargePoint which unify the payment systems for numerous networks (certainly including Eon and Shell).

Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#227

Post by ninalanyon »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #200
rootusrootus wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Tesla fans are so enamored with Elon that there isn’t really going to be anything that changes their mind. The vast majority of people I’ve talked to who said they won’t buy a Tesla because of him are not EV owners at all. Just democrats.

Once you get past the passionate technologist crowd, and there have been signs the initial buyer pool for Tesla was already stagnating a bit in 2023, who are the next natural candidates for buyers? The mass market is 1/3 right wing, 1/3 left wing, 1/3 centrist roughly. The 1/3 right wing are the pickup truck buyers. Like a rock ... Strong as I can be. The 1/3 left wing is now pretty much a no. The 1/3 centrist is pro…

I think Tesla has probably missed the boat on the semi, at least in Europe.

Scania has already delivered plenty of heavy goods EVs here in Norway. Delivery companies like the Post office, DHL, ASKO are investing heavily in large EVs but most of that is going to either Swedish Scania. Chinese SAIC is also selling well for urban delivery vehicles.

Scania sell electric articulated lorries with gross trailer weight up to 75 tonne. The range at 64 tonne is 375 km. https://www.scania.com/no/no/home/products/trucks/battery-el...

Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#228

Post by natch »

PaulWaldman wrote: post #107
m463 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've come to notice that there is no incentive for 3rd party ev-chargers to be dependable. Telsa and rivian have a vested interest in keeping the chargers working. Their sales depend on the chargers working. Even a little bad press is a multiplier against sales. They also have significant engineering effort throughout the charging ecosystem, from the batteries, on-board infrastructure, standards, mapping, strategic c…

> I've come to notice that there is no incentive for 3rd party ev-chargers to be dependable. I don't know, how often would you stop at a gas station if their pumps weren't reliable? Many 3rd party chargers are selling electricity at a mark-up.

You can sell something at a markup but a gas station sells so many $50 fill ups per day compared to an EV station, the gas station probably has about 1000X more revenue.

Sure their margin might be better than a razor-thin gas station margin but for the time being it's a miserable business. Unless there's another incentive, like selling cars.

So yeah. Like the poster said, there is no incentive for 3rd party EV chargers to be dependable.

Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#229

Post by natch »

peutetre wrote: post #202
HdS84 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where Europe dropped the ball is not forcing gas station like behaviour onto the chargers. Now we have a bazillion different charging cards and prices differ wildly depending on the Tarif.

Contactless payment by card is mandated going forward: https://www.fleeteurope.com/en/new-energies/europe/article/f... So you won't have to sign up for anything else.

Or with Tesla leave your card in your wallet, you won't need it. The station IDs the car and charges the card on file in your account. No card, no scan, no tap, no need to use an app, just plug in. At least in the US. Hopefully they aren't forcing this step backwards to contactless payment by card on Teslas too when the existing system is so much better.

Re: Rivian is opening its charging network to other EVs

#230

Post by natch »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #200
rootusrootus wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Tesla fans are so enamored with Elon that there isn’t really going to be anything that changes their mind. The vast majority of people I’ve talked to who said they won’t buy a Tesla because of him are not EV owners at all. Just democrats.

Once you get past the passionate technologist crowd, and there have been signs the initial buyer pool for Tesla was already stagnating a bit in 2023, who are the next natural candidates for buyers? The mass market is 1/3 right wing, 1/3 left wing, 1/3 centrist roughly. The 1/3 right wing are the pickup truck buyers. Like a rock ... Strong as I can be. The 1/3 left wing is now pretty much a no. The 1/3 centrist is pro…

You should short the stock, then.
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