Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How Blackjack Works (2007)

blackjackincolor.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 66 posts

Re: How Blackjack Works (2007)

#41

Post by matwood »

jamal-kumar wrote: post #10
SynasterBeiter wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of. Look up StevenBridges on YouTube, he documents his career as a card counter. It's certainly possible and you can get some profit, but the casino will sooner or later ban you from blackjack, so you also need a steady supply of them.

I just watched one of his videos this morning. Yeah you tend to hit like into the thousands and they tend to see you as a problem, especially on single deck tables. It's not hard for them to spot someone using well known strategies. You can still turn out a modest profit and I think one thing to keep in mind is in places like vegas you might want to find the casinos that aren't owned by the two big companies that own…

In my 20s I played a lot of poker and did well, but even that is becoming more challenging. And let’s be honest, playing blackjack or poker with optimal winning strategies is a work like grind. Nowadays when I go to the casino it’s craps all the way. Played correctly the odds are nearly even and it’s fun and social. Casino Royale on the strip used to have $2 min 100x odds during the day - those were some fun times!

Re: How Blackjack Works (2007)

#42

Post by andreareina »

treetalker wrote: post #38
glitchc wrote: post #33

A large spread between min and max bet coupled with a frequently shuffled deck makes martingale a surprisingly effective strategy. It's non-intuitive but it works.

Positive expected value, or effective as in "lose slower"? My understanding was that Martingale is (almost?) always negative expected value.

Martingale depends on (a) an infinite bankroll, and (b) being able to place an arbitrarily large bet, neither of which hold in the real world.

Re: How Blackjack Works (2007)

#43

Post by lelanthran »

ilamont wrote: post #18
ProjectArcturis wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my story about counting blackjack successfully. It takes place in 2014, at the now-demolished Riviera. At the time, the Riviera was pretty run-down, definitely one of the cheapest places on the Strip. I was in Vegas for the first and only time. They had single-deck blackjack that had a unique side bet. Basically you could make additional bets that you would get dealt a natural blackjack, with a couple variatio…

I employed a basic counting system I learned from a book and tried it out on my first and only visit to Vegas about 20 years ago. This was at the Stardust. It was a miserable afternoon. I don't think the dealer cared, but the other players to my left were pissed when I asked for hits on seemingly nonsensical hands. "Hey, you stole my card again" was a typical complaint. I ended up slightly ahead but never played agai…

> the other players to my left were pissed when I asked for hits

Wouldn't they be on your right?

Re: How Blackjack Works (2007)

#44

Post by makoto12 »

monero-xmr wrote: post #29
johnwatson11218 wrote: post #22

There was a documentary on Prime Video a couple of years ago that followed a card counter as he moved from casino to casino living out of his RV. I think he was up around $600K after one year. He was having to get kicked out of small casinos all over the place and keep moving to new ones every few days. At one point he tells the camera crew that he has to start driving 1/2 a day to skip over a few spots to stay ahead…

There is an entire niche of casino streamers (see kick.com). They basically get free chips and can more / less keep their winnings, but the real money is in all the referrals from people who watch them, which are likely the highest paid referrals on the entire internet given the value of each user. Much easier to earn a living gambling-as-entertainment than gambling-to-win

But the morality is completely different. First one is beating the casino, the second one is marketing gambling to create new generation of degenerates.

Re: How Blackjack Works (2007)

#45

Post by genewitch »

glitchc wrote: post #33

A large spread between min and max bet coupled with a frequently shuffled deck makes martingale a surprisingly effective strategy. It's non-intuitive but it works.

martingale's expected payout at the end of the run of bets is whatever the first bet was. Reverse martingale is a viable betting strategy, one which when employed at craps will get you real close to the -0.16% expected payout.

martingale you increase your bet when you lose, and go back to your base bet when you win. Reverse martingale you have tiered bets, i use 5 tiers, just 1-5 times the base bet. I do $5 craps, so on the pass line i'll put $5. win, put $10. win, put $15, win put $15, win put $20, win put $25, and $25 then on out. if at any point you lose you go back to base bet, $5 in my case. You'll note that after winning the $15 bet, i am no longer betting my money, all further bets in that run are all the casino's money. That is why i like this method. I go in with $200, i get 40 chips, i get to lose 40 games in a row. I've only walked out of a casino loser once, too.

reverse martingale works with any game where you can choose how much to bet, including video poker, roulette, and keno i guess. I wouldn't use it on poker, because betting is a different strategy, and i wouldn't use it on blackjack as it's "too choppy", especially with lots of people and 6 decks, imo.

The best bet for the player in the casino is "don't come" with odds, after the button is on - on the craps table. One of the worst bets in the casino is the big 6 | 8 and all the center-field bets. iirc they call those "the bets that keep the lights on", iirc it's closer to 4% house edge, but i'd have to go look at the payouts and write 12 numbers on the back of a napkin to double check.

Re: How Blackjack Works (2007)

#46

Post by ZephyrBlu »

lelanthran wrote: post #43
ilamont wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I employed a basic counting system I learned from a book and tried it out on my first and only visit to Vegas about 20 years ago. This was at the Stardust. It was a miserable afternoon. I don't think the dealer cared, but the other players to my left were pissed when I asked for hits on seemingly nonsensical hands. "Hey, you stole my card again" was a typical complaint. I ended up slightly ahead but never played agai…

> the other players to my left were pissed when I asked for hits Wouldn't they be on your right?

Play goes clockwise, no? If you take another card, you're taking what would have been the person on your left's card if you had stood.

Re: How Blackjack Works (2007)

#47

Post by [deleted] »

monero-xmr wrote: post #29
johnwatson11218 wrote: post #22

There was a documentary on Prime Video a couple of years ago that followed a card counter as he moved from casino to casino living out of his RV. I think he was up around $600K after one year. He was having to get kicked out of small casinos all over the place and keep moving to new ones every few days. At one point he tells the camera crew that he has to start driving 1/2 a day to skip over a few spots to stay ahead…

There is an entire niche of casino streamers (see kick.com). They basically get free chips and can more / less keep their winnings, but the real money is in all the referrals from people who watch them, which are likely the highest paid referrals on the entire internet given the value of each user. Much easier to earn a living gambling-as-entertainment than gambling-to-win

[deleted]

Re: How Blackjack Works (2007)

#48

Post by verdverm »

chungy wrote: post #4
imglorp wrote: post #2

Is card counting still possible, or have casinos implemented enough countermeasures to defeat its advantage?

Card counting is largely defeated by adding more and more decks to the shuffle. Once you get to a 6-deck shoe, it becomes very difficult to use card counting to successfully "beat the odds".

I kept 4 counts in my head for 8 deck games

1. normal count

2. aces seen

3. face cards seen

4. Card counting is a meaneal mental task you can train yourself at, regardless of how many decks there are. It's more about how fast the cards move on the table and keeping up.

Re: How Blackjack Works (2007)

#49

Post by smileysteve »

xtiansimon wrote: post #32
onekorg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advantage play in Black Jack boils down to: 1. Placing minimum bets when odds are in the casino's favor. 2. Placing large bets when odds are in the player's favor. This makes the betting patterns of solo counters very different and easily identifiable from average joes. Some players do try to add some variance and make intentional non-optimal plays to avoid detection. But every non-optimal play costs money and doing…

I think you also have to rely on your neighbor? I played a few hands in Vegas on a lark while attending a conference. I was resoundingly scolded for taking someone else’s cards because I should have stayed rather than hit.

Yes, your neighbor effects the count. Every card dealt does. Though the more hands on the table, the more knowledge you gain each hand; and this can directly impact a decision to double (though doubling also moves the long game odds towards the house).

An individual can also play multiple hands at the same table (or virtually) to gain this knowledge advantage, though it quickly becomes more obvious.

It terms of etiquette, it's fine to be obvious about counting a single deal, it's the long game that gets you the most advantage and kicked out.

Re: How Blackjack Works (2007)

#50

Post by smileysteve »

ilamont wrote: post #18
ProjectArcturis wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my story about counting blackjack successfully. It takes place in 2014, at the now-demolished Riviera. At the time, the Riviera was pretty run-down, definitely one of the cheapest places on the Strip. I was in Vegas for the first and only time. They had single-deck blackjack that had a unique side bet. Basically you could make additional bets that you would get dealt a natural blackjack, with a couple variatio…

I employed a basic counting system I learned from a book and tried it out on my first and only visit to Vegas about 20 years ago. This was at the Stardust. It was a miserable afternoon. I don't think the dealer cared, but the other players to my left were pissed when I asked for hits on seemingly nonsensical hands. "Hey, you stole my card again" was a typical complaint. I ended up slightly ahead but never played agai…

Pro tip, always sit as close to the right of the dealer as possible; this gets you more information as an amateur (it also makes it more possible you're playing the single hand count, making what you're doing acceptable to the casino), and if your count is correct, quickly results in more wins for your table mates.

Also, celebrate their wins, especially in America.

Post reply on HN