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Cybertruck's Many Recalls

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Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#251

Post by imiric »

_puk wrote: post #192
graemep wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder whether OTA updates being possible encourages manufacturers to be sloppy with software quality. They know they can fix problems cheaply. If they had to physically update vehicles they would have a lot more incentive to make updates unnecessary.

Of course it does. Think about how, even in software, knowing that a physical shipping of a product (CD / Blu-ray) can be updated from "day 1" has led to poor quality releases with last minute patches. The cost of having to physically recall / resend CDs back in the day meant that what went out had to work. The cost of sloppy software has now been externalised.

Exactly.

Back in the day it was a major milestone for video game projects to "go gold". It meant that the rigorous QA process was passed, and that retail copies were ready to be manufactured. Since that involved significant costs and physical logistics, companies certainly didn't want major bugs shipped at this stage. There were some exceptions, but ultimately this led to much higher customer satisfaction. Removing this "inconvenience" for companies and allowing them to ship updates and fixes at any point is a major reason why most modern game releases are a clusterfuck at day one. They treat it as public betas, and day one customers (or, worse, preorder suckers) are testers and a replacement for a QA process they don't have. It's essentially crowdsourced development. This also allows them to hype the game up to boost initial sales, and then go "oops, sorry" while they finish implementing it. This scam has been pulled numerous times over the past decade+, yet these companies keep doing it because it's profitable and there's no legal accountability for it.

The fact these practices are now seeping into software on which human lives depend is criminal, and should be prosecuted and strictly regulated.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#253

Post by bamboozled »

baron816 wrote: post #12
jmward01 wrote: post #5

Completely unrelated to safety, these vehicles don't look like they are aging well. They are all completely new but the ones I am seeing on the road already look a bit beat up. That finish on them and their general styling emphasize every minor blemish.

Every one I’ve seen has a wrap for this reason

Seems weird to buy an $80k car and then spend $6k on a paint job just to make it look decent...

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#254

Post by tene80i »

71bw wrote: post #224
tene80i wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was actually referring to the financial institutions who backed the takeover writing off ~75% of the value of their investment in the platform during Musk’s leadership, which predates the recent Bluesky enthusiasm. But since you mention it: yes, a vocal minority of leftists moving to a new platform is indeed a decline! Get your politics out of it and think about what it means for a business. Part of twitter’s value…

>I was actually referring to the financial institutions who backed the takeover writing off ~75% of the value of their investment in the platform during Musk’s leadership, which predates the recent Bluesky enthusiasm. Makes sense. Valid argument. >yes, a vocal minority of leftists moving to a new platform is indeed a decline! Get your politics out of it and think about what it means for a business. Nothing. They will…

My point isn’t that Twitter is dead, remember. It’s that it is in decline. Bluesky isn’t a twitter replacement today, sure, but it’s a risk, even if the risk is only that the end result is fragmentation. I’m not sure why you say it’s impossible for anything ever to seriously damage X. That’s fanaticism.

And as for people crying wolf, remember: at the end of the fable, there were indeed wolves. The boy was lying, yes, but the lesson is not that there was never any danger - it’s that people stop listening.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#255

Post by bamboozled »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #225

Would you expect anything different from a brand new product? It's like version 1.0 of any software. Wait until at least 1.1 and let someone else shake it down. It reminds me of the Chevy Bolt. Fabulous car, after all the recalls.

Yeah, we're talking about a car here, not a new release of iOS.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#256

Post by bamboozled »

austin-cheney wrote: post #218

Why are people spending so much money for something so hideous and so defective? Is this a weird fashion thing? My old 2017 Kia Soul costs about 5x less and has had 0 defects.

Tribalism. They are political statements now, before the were saving the environment vehicles.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#257

Post by quonn »

saghm wrote: post #137
Aeolun wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree, but saying it's a 'recall' when your car sits in your driveway still feels entirely wrong.

I'm not sure I agree. From the perspective of a customer, not being able to drive the car due to it being unsafe is the part that matters, not where and how the manufacturer has to fix it. If you're opposed to it based on the assumption that it wouldn't take as long, I agree that might be true, but by that logic we should be categorizing _all_ recalls based on length (regardless of whether it's a software update or o…

> not being able to drive the car

I had plenty of recalls and it never happened even once that I could not drive the car before the recall.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#258

Post by JumpCrisscross »

randerson wrote: post #172
gibolt wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The panels will not rust, which is the reason to avoiding scratches on other vehicles. You can beat the hell out of it and not have to care.

Stainless steel can definitely rust. Leave your favorite knife in the sink for a few weeks and watch what happens, especially if it has any scratches on it.

And then put some salt in that water.

Re: Cybertruck's Many Recalls

#259

Post by gambiting »

graemep wrote: post #160
imiric wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that those issues shouldn't happen on a public road vehicle to begin with. Tesla's approach is shipping beta software to customers, and using them as testers. This is an insidious practice in modern software development, but is criminal when that software is running a 3-ton vehicle, regardless if it can be fixed with an OTA update or not. There are reasons why strict car safety regulations exist. You c…

I wonder whether OTA updates being possible encourages manufacturers to be sloppy with software quality. They know they can fix problems cheaply. If they had to physically update vehicles they would have a lot more incentive to make updates unnecessary.

Absolutely. It's easy to see that with Volvo - they had their own operating system called Sensus that could only be upgraded at the dealership and you know, maybe it wasn't the flashiest thing but it worked fine. I've owned a car with it for nearly 5 years and it has never crashed for me once or really did anything weird - it's as stable as any automotive software should be imho. And then they swapped over to AOSS(android based) and it's a complete mess, people have been complaining about bugs and crashes literally constantly, and forums are just full of people going "are you on 3.452.123? They fixed that bug in 3.465.234, you need that update" and the updates literally come out every week, but now owners are worried whether an update actually fixes anything or of it makes things worse again. And I 100% blame the OTA updates for this, they just come in fast and thick clearly without the engineering rigor that automotive software should have.
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