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ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

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Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#661

Post by fastasucan »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #640
fmajid wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Netanyahu and Gallant will no longer be able to travel to Europe, and likely will not want to fly over Europe either (thus not to the US either).

Presumably if they get invited to Europe it will be with assurance from the state that nothing happens to them. And traveling uninvited is probably a bad move anyway. So not much difference. If you mean to imply that Europe is somehow going to shoot down their planes if they fly over that’s obviously absurd.

You will find that you'll get much better discussions if you do some introspection on how you might misinterpret someone when you think someone says something that you think is 'obviously absurd'. Why would they say something that is obviously absurd?

Maybe it is more revealing that you jump to the obviously absurd interpretation rather than the even more obvious, and not absurd one?

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#663

Post by edanm »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #449
nabla9 wrote: post #12

(before you jump into discussion, remember that this only about these two individuals) ICC and the prosecutor are on very solid ground here. The prosecutor asked opinions from a impartial panel of experts in international law. The panel included people like Theodor Meron (former Legal adviser for the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs), Helene Kennedy, Adrian Fulford. Netanyahu and Yoav Gallant provided plenty of ev…

My question, though, is does pushing these kinds of toothless resolutions make any difference beyond showing that the ICC essentially has no power to enforce its warrants? It's clear that the most powerful militaries in the world (US, Russia, essentially China too) have declared the "rules-based world order" dead. Does it do anyone any good to pretend this hasn't happened? It reminded me of the post Elizabeth Warren…

> My question, though, is does pushing these kinds of toothless resolutions make any difference beyond showing that the ICC essentially has no power to enforce its warrants?

Absolutely this matters.

This effectively limits where Netanyahu and Gallant can travel to. That's a big deal for a head of state. It sends a signal to all of Europe to be wary of doing business with Israel, which is a big deal.

We also don't know if there are any hidden warrants for other Israelis, and more importantly, if this is a precedent for future warrants. If the court starts issuing warrants for other IDF military personnel, that becomes a huge negative for Israelis.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#664

Post by locallost »

immibis wrote: post #626
locallost wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Germany has already said it will respect the court's decision but disagrees with it.

[flagged]

Well there are competing forces pulling in different directions. So yes, but... at the same times at least officially, the rules are the rules for Germans. In reality what I learned from them living in Germany is that they will do their best to honor the letter of the law, by effectively doing the opposite. But at least on paper they will follow the rules.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#665

Post by ars »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #639
ars wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Would you mind giving a few examples? I looked at a few myself, many are off-topic, or engage in whataboutism, or openly supported war crimes like collective punishment. Others are plain insults or racism.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42206068 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42208721 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42205267 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42208229 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42208765 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42207363 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42207487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42209050

Should I continue?

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#666

Post by School-Cotton »

Zigurd wrote: post #634
School-Cotton wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no sovereign state called "England"; you mean the UK.

How often do people refer to the USA as "America." It's not quite as pedantic as "it's a republic not a democracy," but...

The difference is that "America" has no other meaning (in English, that is. In some other languages it means the landmass we call "the Americas"). Whereas "England" means something different from the UK.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#667

Post by edanm »

yread wrote: post #520
pagade wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antisemitic. Every time I hear this word, I can’t help but think of its irony—a term used exclusively for describing discrimination against one community, as if prejudice against them carries more weight than against any other. Perhaps, though, it serves as the best reflection of our hypocrisy.

Not to mention there are more semitic people than Jews. And Holocaust targeted more people, too. And there were pogroms against other poeple, too.

> Not to mention there are more semitic people than Jews.

Accurate, but irrelevant. The meaning of anti-semitic has always specifically been hatred of Jews.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#669

Post by jojobas »

ceejayoz wrote: post #647
zeroonetwothree wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably if they get invited to Europe it will be with assurance from the state that nothing happens to them. And traveling uninvited is probably a bad move anyway. So not much difference. If you mean to imply that Europe is somehow going to shoot down their planes if they fly over that’s obviously absurd.

> If you mean to imply that Europe is somehow going to shoot down their planes if they fly over that’s obviously absurd. Shoot down? No. Force them down? There's precedent. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evo_Morales_grounding_incident

Morales's plane was not forced down, it wasn't allowed in some airspaces and requested landing due to instrumentation issues; it also wasn't searched.

One can also fly from Israel to NY over international waters only adding some 400km to the route.

Re: ICC issues warrants for Netanyahu, Gallant, and Hamas officials

#670

Post by dlubarov »

culi wrote: post #630
shihab wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is common and expected. Even when a serial killer suspected of 20 murder is apprehended, arrest is often made based on one or two confirmed cases, more charges are later added as investigation deepens. Also, keep in mind foreign journalists are completely banned by Israel from entering Gaza- complicating evidence gathering.

This is not how the ICC conducts its investigations. The "41+" figure is from a Wikipedia article that is undergoing an edit war. The very source it is citing actually says 63k

As I understand it 41 is the number of starvations recorded in hospitals. 63k is a highly theoretical "estimate" based on the IPC scale and data from food insecurity in other parts of the world. It seems absurd on its face, since it would imply that an absurdly small fraction of starvations were recorded in hospitals.
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