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Why don't you move abroad?

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Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#151

Post by notyourwork »

david-gpu wrote: post #111
tjah1087 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Why do you go away? So that you can come back. So that you can see the place you came from with new eyes and extra colors. And the people there see you differently, too. Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving.” ― Terry Pratchett, A Hat Full of Sky

That assumes that you come back. What happens most commonly is that after some time abroad you marry (usually a foreigner) and have children who belong where they were born. What now? I speak from experience. I wish people would pause for a moment before universally recommending something that they either have not experienced, or they have gotten away from. Such as Terry Pratchett, who never even lived abroad!

It seems odd to me that you are speaking as if your choices are not decisions you have to own the consequence of. You get married, you have kids, you made those choices but refuse to acknowledge that.

Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#152

Post by lotsofpulp »

Xenoamorphous wrote: post #12
hshshshshsh wrote: post #4

To people who are considering moving abroad you should do it. Don't let nationalism stop you. You were randomly born in your country. Choose your country. Don't let randomness and some emotional baggage control where you want to live. You have a finite live. Make most of it.

I don't think nationalism is what's most people considering moving abroad are thinking about. People who move abroad usually leave everything behind: family, friends, etc. Yes you can come visit regularly, but what was previously a daily or weekly thing now becomes yearly or bi-yearly in many cases. Second it's the language barrier: moving to a country where you don't fully master the language (sometimes far from it)…

> People who move abroad usually leave everything behind: family, friends, etc.

In the US, most people I have met who immigrated came via chain migration, with family members sponsoring other family members’ visas. And things also supplemented by family members in those families immigrating via student/work/spousal visas.

Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#153

Post by signaru »

hshshshshsh wrote: post #146
signaru wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opportunities that require big risks is also another factor. My academic acquaintances abroad may be doing well financially and travel-wise, but they all have to live their foreign bosses' ambitions despite being very bright people. It's far easier to take crazier entrepreneurial risks with the safety nets in one's own home-country.

If easy is what your optimising for Entrepreneurship is probably not the path.

Entrepreneurship sure may be difficult as a whole. However, some difficulties are not really necessary. For me, it's a matter of seeing the end goal and removing as much obstacles as possible to get there faster (optimizing for time). I see the need to have a proper job or chase funding as additional obstacles if you are abroad.

Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#154

Post by red-iron-pine »

PrismCrystal wrote: post #150
TrackerFF wrote: post #33

For some, home is where the heart is. I've lived in 11 major cities around the world for the past 25 years, but in the end I moved back home to my rural hometown, in my home country. Remote work made that possible. I make probably 20% of what I could have done in high-COL areas like the Bay Area. But I have a fantastic work-life balance. Make good money, relative to my peers. Clock in 9, clock out 4. Get to spend lot…

"I've never met anyone that regretted on 'traveling too much'." I have traveled as lifestyle since my late teens and am now in my forties. (I went to uni in a country where lecture attendance isn't compulsory, so many students only come in for the exams, and then I began remote work already in the early millennium.) It is just who I am, and I wouldn't necessarily say I regret it. However, I and loads of people I know…

yeah glad I did a lot of travel post-military, had some adventures.

but it also won't fix your life, and in many cases just punts the problems to be solved later -- while usually creating new ones.

Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#155

Post by rsanek »

DanielHB wrote: post #67
jefftk wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reads to me like this was on the exam for getting into the CS program in particular, though. Which makes it sound like IIT has dealt with the very large number of students who want to study CS by trying to limit it to the overall academically strongest students?

I am Brazilian and people from US and Europe are completely clueless about the level of competition at the end of high school in those kind of countries (Brazil, China, India). He is talking about college entrance exams. "vestibular" in Brazil, "gaokao" in China, the JEE (Joint Entrance Examination) in India. Those are the keys to upper middle class and they are guarded jealously. In my case to get in CS at a top uni…

sounds similar to how top universities work globally? many places have tens of people applying for a single 'spot' that gets in.

https://www.gotouniversity.com/universities-acceptance-rate

Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#156

Post by b3ing »

nickd2001 wrote: post #110
0xEF wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure if you are making a joke, sorry. If so, well done. Otherwise, if I did not do a good job of explaining, I can elaborate further on any points that are not fully understood. This is something my wife and I have been considering for years, even prior to America's new experiment with fascism, but there are intrinsic barriers aplenty unless you have a very specific skill set, money, or want to do the Peace…

Handful of thoughts. :) The best of the 3 above is having a specific skill set. Anything medical - e:g nursing (good one 'cos less time to retrain) is in short supply worldwide and you can get a local job with visa sponsorship many places. As for experimenting with fascism, USA is sadly by no means the only country going that direction, and the USA's political system may be more resilient to such take-overs, guess we…

The US requires 0 days off nationally, not sure where you got 2 weeks. I had a job once where we only got 5 days off but had to be there a year first. It was the best IT job I could get at the time.

Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#157

Post by forinti »

cassianoleal wrote: post #56
DanielHB wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also have a lot of things in common with the person in the article, as a Brazilian living and working in Sweden I can relate a lot to the things he is saying. However I feel the main thing that made me move away from Brazil was not status, income or "success". It was the realization that no matter how "successful" I was my life was still going to suck. Working in IT in Brazil means living in São Paulo and that is l…

> Working in IT in Brazil means living in São Paulo It absolutely does not. Porto Alegre and Recife are 2 large IT centres where there's plenty of good jobs from large corporations to small startups. Florianópolis also had small but workable one though I don't know how it's evolved in more recent years. Salaries are certainly better in São Paulo but so is the cost of living, and for many the quality of life can be a…

There are a few good opportunities in both Porto Alegre and Recife, for sure, but most jobs are mediocre at best.

If you have any sort of ambition (technological or financial), you should get a government job, start your own business, or move.

Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#158

Post by david-gpu »

notyourwork wrote: post #151
david-gpu wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes that you come back. What happens most commonly is that after some time abroad you marry (usually a foreigner) and have children who belong where they were born. What now? I speak from experience. I wish people would pause for a moment before universally recommending something that they either have not experienced, or they have gotten away from. Such as Terry Pratchett, who never even lived abroad!

It seems odd to me that you are speaking as if your choices are not decisions you have to own the consequence of. You get married, you have kids, you made those choices but refuse to acknowledge that.

> It seems odd to me that you are speaking as if your choices are not decisions you have to own the consequence of. You get married, you have kids, you made those choices but refuse to acknowledge that.

Where did I refuse to acknowledge that, exactly?

Our choices indeed have consequences. And it is popular to paint "moving abroad" as a universally positive experience, so I want to counterbalance that with information about some of the common real-world consequences that come with that choice. How is adding some information and nuance a problem?

Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#159

Post by pier25 »

graemep wrote: post #89

My family are Sri Lankan (and I was born there), so I have experienced much the same as the author - Sri Lanka has a VERY high emigration rate, and even more so among the affluent. There have been genuine reasons for people to leave though (civil war, corrupt and incompetent government, a major economic crisis) and even so I think many people hugely over-estimate the gain from emigrating. Pay might be lower but so is…

I'm from Spain and have been living in Mexico for 15 years.

Spaniards favorite hobby is complaining about Spain. They live in a bubble and don't realize quality of life there is one of the best in the world.

Whenever I go back I'm marveled even by simple things like roads without pot holes which are everywhere in Mexico.

Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#160

Post by david-gpu »

holoduke wrote: post #133
david-gpu wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They didn't say they traveled too much. Indeed, that is my point: their actions did not march their narrative. They eventually realized that it wasn't all that great and corrected course. If being abroad was such a universally positive choice as they claim, they would have remained abroad.

The tomorrows you is a different one than the todays you. Going abroad for a few years changes your personality in a good way. The mission is complete. You can go home now.

> The mission is complete. You can go home now

My wife and children are foreigners; "moving back" would mean uprooting them.

Also, I have lived abroad for so long that my country of origin feels foreign at this point, in what is called reverse culture shock.

You reach a point where you are a foreigner wherever you are.

I'm not saying that it's all been negative; far from it. But I can't universally recommend people to try living abroad after what I've seen both personally and in other immigrants I've known over the years.

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