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Why don't you move abroad?

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Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#131

Post by weatherlite »

hshshshshsh wrote: post #119
weatherlite wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To people who are considering moving abroad you should do it. Or not. What kind of general advice is this. It depends on so many factors - your age, marital status, how close you are to your family and culture. For many people, I think for the majority even, unless they live in a war torn area then staying put makes a lot of sense. > Don't let randomness and some emotional baggage control where you want to live Yes…

If staying makes sense then stay. If you want to move then move. My argument is don't let random beliefs and emotions stand in between.

Yeah family and culture are not random beliefs and emotions for most people as many commenters here said. I think you have a very rare outlook on this that isn't right for most people.

Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#132

Post by DanielHB »

cassianoleal wrote: post #126
DanielHB wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I am from São Paulo state, I worked a few years in Campinas but I refused to move to São Paulo city. But even in Campinas (which is a somewhat decent tech center) it still was hard to find good jobs. From my point of view moving from São Paulo state to one of those other Brazilian tech centers is not that big of a leap to just move to another country.

That's fair but it's also moving the goalpost. :)

True, but like I mentioned, I lived in Campinas which is not that bad IT place, but still I was very unimpressed about the jobs around the region, either boring enterprise jobs or small scrappy startups.

If I have to move somewhere where I know no one and it takes a plane flight to see family I might as well move to a place with a hot job market where I can make good money and have good work life balance.

Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#133

Post by holoduke »

david-gpu wrote: post #103
viraptor wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't say they traveled too much. Deciding to stop something doesn't mean you overdid it.

> They didn't say they traveled too much. Indeed, that is my point: their actions did not march their narrative. They eventually realized that it wasn't all that great and corrected course. If being abroad was such a universally positive choice as they claim, they would have remained abroad.

The tomorrows you is a different one than the todays you. Going abroad for a few years changes your personality in a good way. The mission is complete. You can go home now.

Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#134

Post by poszlem »

Coming from an Eastern European country to the UK, I was told by many colleagues who had also moved there that people in the UK are very difficult to befriend (make friends, not acquaintances), as if it were part of English culture. "They are just like that," they would say.

I made many friends with other immigrants from all over Europe. This suggested that the English were somehow uniquely challenging to befriend.

What I realized later in life is that this couldn't be further from the truth. The actual situation is that when you move to another country as an adult, most people your age already have established friendships from school and earlier life. They don't "need" a friend as much as you do. This applies to every country. The reason I got along so well with other immigrants was that they also "needed" to make friends, as their childhood friends were all left back home.

I'm not saying this to invalidate what the original poster was saying, but it's definitely something to keep in mind when you move abroad - it will be HARD to make true local friends and you will have to work for it.

Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#135

Post by grugagag »

david-gpu wrote: post #111
tjah1087 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Why do you go away? So that you can come back. So that you can see the place you came from with new eyes and extra colors. And the people there see you differently, too. Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving.” ― Terry Pratchett, A Hat Full of Sky

That assumes that you come back. What happens most commonly is that after some time abroad you marry (usually a foreigner) and have children who belong where they were born. What now? I speak from experience. I wish people would pause for a moment before universally recommending something that they either have not experienced, or they have gotten away from. Such as Terry Pratchett, who never even lived abroad!

Two options the kids could adapt to. One of the partners will have to make a concession too but if it’s for the overall better health of the family it’s worth it IMO. Whats the point to live an unhealthy life?

Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#136

Post by rcxdude »

david-gpu wrote: post #116
em-bee wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so it makes sense that you feel like that, but please don't try to justify your experience by claiming that everyone else feels the same. i left when i was young and it was the greatest experience ever. i would not miss it for the world. but my motivation was not money, it was learning. when i stop learning where i am, then i move on. eventually i may move back to where i am from, not because it's not working out or…

> so it makes sense that you feel like that, but please don't try to justify your experience by claiming that everyone else feels the same I beg your pardon? Let me quote the very first comment I made in this thread. >>>> There are pros and cons to all possibilities, whether it is staying put, traveling as a tourist, or immigrating in a foreign country. This is in contrast to some of the claims made by others in this…

I think your first post would have been stronger if you hadn't held up the poster's decision to return home as evidence that travelling could be negative, because that didn't follow on from their post or point whatsoever. The rest of your points can stand without that.

(FWIW, I disagree: there is tremendous value in travelling, even if just as a tourist. The main issue is having the resources to do it, which I think is frequently underestimated. Where I personally call home is quite different from where I grew up, but unlike the OP I don't have any particular family ties to a single area, because my family is very spread around, having all settled elsewhere after travelling for work, study, or just for something different. I also have never found someone who regretted moving, even the case of two different people I know who went to the effort of moving the the US and then finding they really don't like it, and moving back within months, don't regret the experience, even if it was expensive)

Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#137

Post by thatloststudent »

eesmith wrote: post #79
thatloststudent wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I interpreted it as knowing the basics of nuclear physics in order to do a CS Bachelor's degree, which is what the entrance exam for these colleges ask.

Like lancebeet, I learned there are radioactive isotopes of carbon as part of learning about carbon dating while in high school. I think there's a big step from that knowledge to say that means I know the basics of nuclear physics. If anything, it's a better test for the basics of archaeological dating. Or, as I learned recently, the 12C/13C/14C ratios are used to help determine the source for the increase in atmosph…

I'm Indian. We also learned that Carbon dating was a thing somewhere between Middle School and High School. I also believe that the reference to isotopes was hyperbolic and that he actually wanted to talk about the fact that we teach the basics of Nuclear fission, fusion and radioactive decay in high school. [1]

In hindsight, it's funny that we use radioactive decay as one of the filters for an entrance exam for University. [2]

1 - https://ncert.nic.in/textbook/pdf/leph205.pdf

2 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Entrance_Examination

Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#138

Post by signaru »

felixarba wrote: post #37
hshshshshsh wrote: post #4

To people who are considering moving abroad you should do it. Don't let nationalism stop you. You were randomly born in your country. Choose your country. Don't let randomness and some emotional baggage control where you want to live. You have a finite live. Make most of it.

Nationalism is not the thing stopping most people. It's your friends, family and the feeling of belonging. This is culture, not nationalism. I lived in Canada for 10 years before moving back home. I had a great life in Canada, fulfilled things I quite literally never dreamed possible, but I didn't belong. I lived my life between vacations, just waiting for the time that I can go back home and spend time with family.…

Opportunities that require big risks is also another factor. My academic acquaintances abroad may be doing well financially and travel-wise, but they all have to live their foreign bosses' ambitions despite being very bright people. It's far easier to take crazier entrepreneurial risks with the safety nets in one's own home-country.

Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#139

Post by david-gpu »

grugagag wrote: post #135
david-gpu wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes that you come back. What happens most commonly is that after some time abroad you marry (usually a foreigner) and have children who belong where they were born. What now? I speak from experience. I wish people would pause for a moment before universally recommending something that they either have not experienced, or they have gotten away from. Such as Terry Pratchett, who never even lived abroad!

Two options the kids could adapt to. One of the partners will have to make a concession too but if it’s for the overall better health of the family it’s worth it IMO. Whats the point to live an unhealthy life?

There are no universally positive options, only tradeoffs. That is the theme I've been trying to convey in this thread from the beginning, fighting against the simplistic memes that are so often repeated about living abroad.

Re: Why don't you move abroad?

#140

Post by poszlem »

keiferski wrote: post #44

A lot of people that have moved abroad focus on how supposedly terrible the place they came from is, but I think one of the most underrated aspects is that you think more about your origin country and what it means to be an American/Frenchman/etc. - more than you normally would, had you never left. There’s something about being outside of a thing that makes you consider it more, and see it more insightfully. That is…

This is absolutely true. There is a Polish-Danish singer who moved to Denmark when he was 5 years old. He returned to Poland at the age of 28 and created a song called "I hate you Poland" that explains this very concept. I'm not sure how well the lyrics would translate, but they address this issue ("here" means abroad, "there" refers to Poland):

I hate you, Poland

I can't help it

I hate you, Poland

Because you have power over me

I count long months

I don't know how many in total

I'd like to return, but I can't

Because I can't love you

There, I was annoyed by stupidity

Poverty and misery, young and old

Here, I'm annoyed that I have everything

I could ever wish for

Maybe someday those will understand

Who left the country long ago

That there, poverty is real

And wealth here is just pretend

I'll tell you if I dare

Because it's a very silly topic

There, Sunday mass irritated me

Here, I'm annoyed that there isn't one

Here, pedants annoy me

There, slobs annoyed me

Everything got mixed up

And I don't know what I... feel!

I hate you, Poland

I can't help it

I hate you, Poland

Because you have power over me

I count long months

I don't know how many in total

I'd like to return, but I can't

Because I can't love you

I resent your heritage

Still alive within me

Because you are primitive

And I am a primitive

Someone wanted this

Someone had this in mind

There, I became a degenerate

Here, I'm becoming a patriot!

I noticed the same thing, the more I live abroad the more I love my home country. Then when I come back I hate and resent it again and miss my home abroad.

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