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The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

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621–630 of 780 posts

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The grudges are valid. The default in America is to make everything out to be individualistic, but the rest of us have to bear the very real costs of the externality of pickups, not just limited to pollution but also safety, land use, etc.

I think you just made the case for some flavor or another of socialism.

Socialism is good, actually.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that possible? What's it doing that ICE cars can't do on a highway?

The ICE engine in a Prius is a special branch of tech that is more efficient at the cost of basically kneecapped performance. Americans cannot stand needing a full ten seconds to get onto the highway, because we all drive like a bunch of roided up chimps who refuse to move over to give the merging onramp any room. For two decades there has been a roughly free 5% or so in fuel economy available to any ICE car if only…

> Americans will swear that a ten cent increase in gas prices will drive them to financial ruin

Look, come on. There's no need to turn every comment into a chance to bash a whole country. I bet there aren't many countries you think so poorly of that you'd make sweeping statements about their populations. Gas prices affect all prices due to direct logistics costs and the increases every employee needs all along every supply chain. That's the problem with them.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#623
post #434

I can't believe that the average price of a car in the U.S. is almost $50k. For rapidly depreciating assets. Here I am working out TCO costs for a range of mid-sized cars for my next purchase, and trying to decide if the extra $2k for a Prius Prime over a Prius will beat the differential in fuel costs for my driving situation. I feel like a chump, but I know it's the smarter thing to do with my money. I coworker of m…

If you're an American wondering why you're forced to buy shitty overpriced Teslas instead of those $15k BYD Dolphins, here's Janet Yellen screeching about how unfair it is that China uses its labor force to manufacture consumer goods instead of creating millions of bullshit make-work financialization jobs like good liberal democracies https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/yellen-intends-warn-...

Both parties are in the wrong on this. Americans (and others) would be wealthier and the world would decarbonize faster if the tariffs on China were lifted but it is what the people want

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> coworker of mine just spent $100k on a regular old pickup truck > It gets like 11 mpg and uses the 92 octane fuel. I understand hating on pickup trucks is an easy way to farm upvotes on HN, but there is no 'regular pickup truck' in existence that gets 11 mpg. The closest that comes to that is the F-150 Raptor with turbocharged V8 which is a preposterous performance vehicle with a racing engine. It is a luxury item.…

Lamborghini drivers obeying the traffic rules aren't creating a hazard. Aftermarket headlights blazing directly into the eyes of oncoming drivers are creating a hazard. As is the fact that it takes up a lot of road space and has poor visibility for small objects in front of the hood.

It isn't just aftermarket headlights anymore, some are blinding from the factory.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#625
post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Americans won't buy cheap cars Sure they will, they'll even buy cheap EVs. The highest lifetime EV sales in the US is the Leaf, Model 3/Y, and Bolt. They aren't at the top of the list because they're the best cars on the market, but because they are the cheapest.

>The highest lifetime EV sales in the US is the Leaf, Model 3/Y, and Bolt. The cheapest Model 3 is $42,500. The cheapest Model Y is $45,000. Is that cheap? The Leaf ($30,000) and Bolt ($27,500) are cheap_er_ (by a lot), but they are still not what I (and presumably parent) would consider cheap.

The Leaf was famously available for $10-$12k at one point.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#626
post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

City dwellers will spend $2500 a month for 400 sq feet of rented living space and laugh at people paying $50k for a car.

You said it yourself — their dwelling is the entire city. Those 400sqft are where they sleep and relax but most of their living probably happens outside. Different strokes and all that.

Same with a hotel. The hotel is where I spend most of my time unconscious. Other than a few select destinations, why would I spend a fortune at a place where I’ll mostly be asleep?

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taking one single family home solar does not provide a measurable environmental impact in aggregate. OP doesn't have to pay the electric bill anymore, but the average residential solar install exceeds $30k before credits. Someone has to pay off that loan... Not to mention the Chinese factory that manufactured the solar panels is probably dumping toxic waste chemicals into the local drinking water unabated. We're all…

> Taking one single family home solar does not provide a measurable environmental impact in aggregate. In order for large numbers of homes to go solar, individual homes need to go solar. Are you saying we just shouldn't bother with solar and EVs because not everyone is going to do it? May aswell just stop donating to charity too right? > Someone has to pay off that loan... I think the OP is probably paying for the lo…

> In order for large numbers of homes to go solar, individual homes need to go solar

Or we could put that solar on the grid so everyone could benefit from it

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need laws that ban these junk fees. Any advertised price should be one I can get when I walk in. I cannot get the car without registration. I cannot get the car without 'destination' fee. Bake it into the price.

The destination fee isn't really a "junk" fee. it's variable based on how far away from the plant that manufactured your car or, or the distance from nearest port of entry. Delivering a car isn't cheap. There's certainly some level of arbitrage going on, but the delivery driver is usually independent of the dealership.

And yet the destination fee is the same no matter where you are. If you buy a Chrysler Pacifica in Detroit, 15 miles from the assembly plant, you get to pay the same $1595 destination fee as someone 2000 miles away in Los Angeles.

Since the fee doesn’t actually reflect anything related to cost of delivery, it’s hard to see it as anything other than hiding part of the MSRP so that they can lie about cheaper prices in advertisements.

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The grudges are valid. The default in America is to make everything out to be individualistic, but the rest of us have to bear the very real costs of the externality of pickups, not just limited to pollution but also safety, land use, etc.

I think you just made the case for some flavor or another of socialism.

Or maybe we could just not make literally everything a tragedy of the commons or a race to the bottom?

Re: The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

#630
post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Americans won't buy cheap cars Sure they will, they'll even buy cheap EVs. The highest lifetime EV sales in the US is the Leaf, Model 3/Y, and Bolt. They aren't at the top of the list because they're the best cars on the market, but because they are the cheapest.

>The highest lifetime EV sales in the US is the Leaf, Model 3/Y, and Bolt. The cheapest Model 3 is $42,500. The cheapest Model Y is $45,000. Is that cheap? The Leaf ($30,000) and Bolt ($27,500) are cheap_er_ (by a lot), but they are still not what I (and presumably parent) would consider cheap.

It was 30k new, but you could lease it for nearly nothing (a friend got $120/month) or buy it off-lease for about 10k. I bought one for 10k in 2016, drove it as a daily commuter until 2022 and sold it for 6k.
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