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How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

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Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#171
post #135

> "I can't quit the job. If I say I'm going to quit, I'll be threatened that I will have to pay damages for quitting." Interestingly, this is actually possible under Japanese law/legal precedent. If an employee, for example, decides to put in notice and then half-ass their job until their departure date, a company could actually sue the employee and win. Other Japan-labor-law fun fact: if you are a contract worker, i…

> If an employee, for example, decides to put in notice and then half-ass their job until their departure date, Suppose you are fired, and the company decides unilaterally to halve your salary during the notice period, wouldn't you get nasty about it? > if you are a contract worker, it is literally illegal for you to quit prior to your contract expiry date As long as it is illegal for the company to fire you as well,…

> I don't see any problem. Why should a party of a contract be free to breach it at will while the other remains constrained?

Companies are run to make money, while people usually enter employment contracts in order to have money to feed their families and survive. Humans usually come to the consensus that people are more important than profits.

A company doesn't need to be doing anything illegal for the working conditions to be unsafe. I am still boycotting Paris Baguette and their sister companies because of their stubbornness and refusal to go beyond the legal minimums in safety equipment.

2 years ago a 23-year old employee got pulled into a sauce making machine and was crushed to death, with nobody finding her body until the next day. Let's say you are a bright 22-year old from the Philippines who got offered 3x your peers salary for working at an industrial bakery. It doesn't sound so bad right? Now let's say your friend got killed by machinery, and the company refuses to take responsibility because the safety equipment that could have prevented their death was optional and not legally required. You're 4 months into your 12-month contract. Do you have enough money to even get a flight back home? Do you have enough money to break your contract and pay the company for your flight from your home country, pay the company for breaking your subsidized lease in the dorms, etc? No you don't. That is a bad situation to be in. If it were me I would break the contract and just never come back to Korea. They're not going to extradite you for this debt, but does everyone know that? Especially migrant workers?

Now I know this is about Japan and not Korea. Look into how many Vietnamese go work in the textile industry in Japan and get injured. Should there really be more barriers and intimidation when it comes to forcing the workers to stay for the duration of their contract when their roommate was crippled by the machinery? Or should it be easier for people to leave potentially dangerous situations?

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This also applies to white collar workers. Do you know how many Indian college students are lured to go work at a Japanese company with the promise of a high salary, only to then move to Tokyo and realize they're spending way more money than they expected due to the higher COL? Companies absolutely take advantage of this system. In the US companies usually only offer contracts to highly skilled workers, while in other countries companies offer contracts in order to trap individuals into poor working conditions and being underpaid when they're naive to the job market.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#172
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't save because they don't need to since there's always a job available as hiring is so easy. In Europe we need to save in case we want to quit, since then we lose all rights and protections and need to wait months before finding a new job.

A major reason poor people don't save is the inflationary currency and government control of interest rates (plus other central bank policy) encourages debt over saving. We slowly put a noose around our necks because our laws put lights on that runway. We need major reform to get back to a saving mindset. It'll be a world where the government will borrow and print far less money.

I'm looking at the data and there is zero relationship between inflation, interest rates and personal savings in the USA. People save in time of crisis (2008, covid, etc.), and don't when the economy is good (1990 -> 2007)

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're saying that it cuts one way.

Employee protection laws have nothing to do with what I was talking about. As an employee in the USA (contract or freelance), I can quit any time I like. My contract may be for two years, but I can cancel it tomorrow if I want, and only in extreme cases is there any penalty for doing so. In the EU, if I sign a 1-year contract there is an expectation that I will actually work that year. If I break contract by deciding…

This is wrong.

A 1-year employment contract in the EU will still have a notice period, probably 2-4 weeks. (Probably 1 month for a 2-year contract.)

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#174

> "I can't quit the job. If I say I'm going to quit, I'll be threatened that I will have to pay damages for quitting." Interestingly, this is actually possible under Japanese law/legal precedent. If an employee, for example, decides to put in notice and then half-ass their job until their departure date, a company could actually sue the employee and win. Other Japan-labor-law fun fact: if you are a contract worker, i…

Constitution of Japan, Article 18, prohibition of forced labor. So "illegal" isn't the right word.

While damages are theoretically possible for leaving a fixed term employment contract early (with an exception after one year has passed), I'd be very interested in the precedent you're talking of, regarding an actual case of a contract employee being sued for quitting early.

Only case I found was the K's International case, 1992, where an employee quit after 4 days, and the employer sued and was awarded damages (amount unknown) due to the disruption it caused. I couldn't find any further details though.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#175
post #52

> "I can't quit the job. If I say I'm going to quit, I'll be threatened that I will have to pay damages for quitting." Interestingly, this is actually possible under Japanese law/legal precedent. If an employee, for example, decides to put in notice and then half-ass their job until their departure date, a company could actually sue the employee and win. Other Japan-labor-law fun fact: if you are a contract worker, i…

I live in Japan and while also not a lawyer I've had experiences with the labor bureau - this is totally false, and even explicitly stated in the Labor Standards Act: "Article 5: An employer must not force a worker to work against their will through the use of physical violence, intimidation, confinement, or any other means that unjustly restricts that worker's mental or physical freedom. ... Article 16: An employer…

I think this is only a prohibition on liquidated damages clauses though (plus making the act of even writing a penalty clause, which are already unenforceable, unlawful).

It doesn't appear to be an exclusion of actual damages due to e.g. a one year contract worker quitting after 6 months, if it actually caused their employer damages.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#176
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If an employee, for example, decides to put in notice and then half-ass their job until their departure date, Suppose you are fired, and the company decides unilaterally to halve your salary during the notice period, wouldn't you get nasty about it? > if you are a contract worker, it is literally illegal for you to quit prior to your contract expiry date As long as it is illegal for the company to fire you as well,…

> I don't see any problem. Why should a party of a contract be free to breach it at will while the other remains constrained? Companies are run to make money, while people usually enter employment contracts in order to have money to feed their families and survive. Humans usually come to the consensus that people are more important than profits. A company doesn't need to be doing anything illegal for the working cond…

My point is that constraints must be equally strong on both sides.

If you want to be free to leave, just accept that the company is free to let you go. That's all!

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#177
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shinzo Abe getting shot Assassinated, you mean.

Typically when a sitting leader of a country gets shot it's not by their own accord.

Shot is much more inaccurate of a description than assassinated, unless you want to ignore/downplay a sitting political leader getting murdered for political purposes.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shinzo Abe getting shot Assassinated, you mean.

Assassinated via getting shot, yes.

Shot is much more inaccurate of a description than assassinated, unless you want to ignore/downplay a sitting political leader getting murdered for political purposes.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#179
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our regulations (including the medical guild) and legal structure (including crazy malpractice payouts for unintentional mistakes) forces everything to be more expensive than necessary. We are very far from a free market, even if we stopped with the untaxed benefits.

US healthcare is a market but not for patients. Insurance, employers and hospitals negotiate a lot. But people who get employer based insurance just have to accept what they are given. Pretty crazy.

Don’t most large employers essentially self insure? They only outsource the administration to insurance companies, not the float.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, Musk claims to work that hard himself (or more), but the difference is that he is a direct beneficiary and earns millions per hour. Whereas a regular employee earns X amount per month, that's it. Maybe some scraps in stock market value, but one of Musk's tweets has more of an impact on those than a career of 80 hour work weeks would of any employee.

Also, one might be forgiven for doubting him on that; unless he's counting 'painfully stupid tweets' as 'work', the sheer volume of them would call the _possibility_ of this into question.

I think you wouldn't be forgiven if you don't cast doubt.

The guy runs 6 independent companies (at least their stock is!). There aren't 6*80 hours in a week.

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