Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most of them have strong employee protection laws too which prevent such an abuse
That’s what the phrase “cuts both ways” means.
They're saying that it cuts one way.
How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
101–110 of 238 posts
Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
America has very low unemployment and median household incomes are among the highest in the world. You get to continue your existing health insurance 18 months after you quit if you wish, you just have to pay for it. Most people can and if you can’t then the government pays for it. While getting terminated is disruptive, it isn’t the end of the world for the typical American. The relative ease with which most people…
While your comment may shed some light on the nuances, gp’s point shouldn’t be disregarded. Losing income and health insurance is in fact amongst the most practical of repercussions one can experience upon losing a job.
That this needs to be spelled out just shows that HN operates in an extremely privileged bubble.
Some people are aware of it, but most don’t seem to be.
Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The reasoning being, if you continued to pay the employee during the term of their employment, and you knew that the employee was not performing based on some KPI or some yard stick, you would issue warning to the employee to improve their performance, or you would fire the employee on the spot. Continuing keep an underperforming employee is giving tactic consent that their work is reasonably acceptable because if…
Each party has their own valid argument that is why they're seeking the court to make a ruling. How-ever coercive threats of legal action is also in of itself constitute a encroachment of someone free will and statutory right which everything being equal could be ground for further legal recourse by the other party. You could also go into nit picking details around consent and duress during employment, which can get…
> Each party has their own valid argument that is why they're seeking the court to make a ruling.
In many countries that kind of lawsuit would be trivially dismissed, because an employee not working does not give an employer a cause of action. In Japan a company can at least in theory be owed damages if an employee on a fixed-term employment contract of less than a year fails to work, so a case like that would go to trial on the merits (even if everyone knows it's very difficult for the company to actually meet the bar for showing damages) and be significantly more costly to defend, and that fact creates a chilling effect.
> How-ever coercive threats of legal action is also in of itself constitute a encroachment of someone free will and statutory right which everything being equal could be ground for further legal recourse by the other party.
Under what law?
Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
#104A follow-up analysis 10 years later would be really interesting
Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
The majority of developed countries have subtle versions of this. I was naive about this before I worked outside the US and saw the practical impact. The chains go both ways and have real downsides. Having seen the perverse incentives this creates and the various ways in which it can be abused, I have come to the conclusion that the American “at-will” employment model is actually a good thing and benefits workers. No…
I was stunned when I realised my Irish work contracts had a forced notice period, not just a courtesy. Accenture uses this as a tool to stop people quitting - forced three month notice even for super low level employees. Makes it hard to interview for new jobs!
It does not. New jobs know about notice periods and plan ahead.
Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
#106Please add [2014]. It's an interesting read, but temporal context is important. The world has been through a lot. Even if we talk only about Japan, there has been - COVID - Tokyo 2020 Olympics - 3 prime ministers leaving their posts - Shinzo Abe getting shot
> Shinzo Abe getting shot
Assassinated, you mean.
Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
#107> "I can't quit the job. If I say I'm going to quit, I'll be threatened that I will have to pay damages for quitting." Interestingly, this is actually possible under Japanese law/legal precedent. If an employee, for example, decides to put in notice and then half-ass their job until their departure date, a company could actually sue the employee and win. Other Japan-labor-law fun fact: if you are a contract worker, i…
The majority of developed countries have subtle versions of this. I was naive about this before I worked outside the US and saw the practical impact. The chains go both ways and have real downsides. Having seen the perverse incentives this creates and the various ways in which it can be abused, I have come to the conclusion that the American “at-will” employment model is actually a good thing and benefits workers. No…
Many countries let the worker be at will effectively, the employer can only fire them for cause or redundancy or a proper PIP. However the worker can't sue for much if they are unfairly dismissed, so no company is too on tbe hook. Which is good because it would reduce jobs. Add universal healthcare and social security and it's an OK system. Althouth the SS may not actually be enough to live off.
Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
The majority of developed countries have subtle versions of this. I was naive about this before I worked outside the US and saw the practical impact. The chains go both ways and have real downsides. Having seen the perverse incentives this creates and the various ways in which it can be abused, I have come to the conclusion that the American “at-will” employment model is actually a good thing and benefits workers. No…
The US compensates for their lassiez-faire employment model with their gym memberships and other subscriptions, which are harder to get out of than Japanese companies.
Drake meme:
No way ..... $200,000 more a year comp.
Hell yeah ..... gym membership
Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
The majority of developed countries have subtle versions of this. I was naive about this before I worked outside the US and saw the practical impact. The chains go both ways and have real downsides. Having seen the perverse incentives this creates and the various ways in which it can be abused, I have come to the conclusion that the American “at-will” employment model is actually a good thing and benefits workers. No…
I was stunned when I realised my Irish work contracts had a forced notice period, not just a courtesy. Accenture uses this as a tool to stop people quitting - forced three month notice even for super low level employees. Makes it hard to interview for new jobs!
Not at all, the labour market takes that into account, to the extent that if you're available to start working tomorrow, everyone is jostled off balance and chances are you will be asked to begin in three months, anyway.
Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Reads like a job ad for the worst startup in the world: super high-IQ + small-government revolutionaries + 80+ hours per week + on unglamorous cost-cutting (salary TDB)
Work hard, play hard, we are like a family — uttered by several YC companies at various recruiting events
Ah yes, the good old family/friends angle. And it's true... well, kind of. What they don't tell you is that what they expect from YOU is that you'll behave like TheBiz is your second family (loyalty, sacrifice, forgiveness...), but of course for TheBiz you'll still be just an easily replaceable cog in the machine... anything more would be WEIRD, right?
Off the charts levels cringe.
Just be professional and treat employment like any other business transaction. Why is it so hard for founders and HRs to not be full of shit and treat their employees with dignity and respect?
Like, come on, TheBiz and I are not family, we're not friends and we will never be anything of the sort. We have a somewhat common goal (of making money), but that's about it. It's a giant red flag to (pretend to) expect anything more.