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How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

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Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#51

Post by jmspring »

rukuu001 wrote: post #37
Culonavirus wrote: post #21

Funny seeing a post about these as that's what I was recently reminded of when reading this post: https://x.com/DOGE/status/1857076831104434289 ("80+ hours per week" ... what kind of a psycho even writes this down and puts it out there as if it was normal in any way...)

Reads like a job ad for the worst startup in the world: super high-IQ + small-government revolutionaries + 80+ hours per week + on unglamorous cost-cutting (salary TDB)

Work hard, play hard, we are like a family — uttered by several YC companies at various recruiting events

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#52

Post by roobs »

infotainment wrote: post #2

> "I can't quit the job. If I say I'm going to quit, I'll be threatened that I will have to pay damages for quitting." Interestingly, this is actually possible under Japanese law/legal precedent. If an employee, for example, decides to put in notice and then half-ass their job until their departure date, a company could actually sue the employee and win. Other Japan-labor-law fun fact: if you are a contract worker, i…

I live in Japan and while also not a lawyer I've had experiences with the labor bureau - this is totally false, and even explicitly stated in the Labor Standards Act:

"Article 5: An employer must not force a worker to work against their will through the use of physical violence, intimidation, confinement, or any other means that unjustly restricts that worker's mental or physical freedom.

...

Article 16: An employer must not form a contract that prescribes a monetary penalty for breach of a labor contract or establishes the amount of compensation for loss or damage in advance."

(Source: https://www.japaneselawtranslation.go.jp/en/laws/view/3567)

This explicitly applies to contract workers (契約社員) too, and protections for employees (正社員) are so strong that it can often take months of documentation to dismiss someone. Whether people know they have these protections, knew they had them before they sign something their company gives them or feel comfortable actually reporting when a company has violated them is a different story. But basic salary is protected strongly enough that most Japanese companies heavily weight compensation on annual/semi-annual bonuses, housing allowances etc... (which are not protected).

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#53

Post by rawgabbit »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #34

> The Benesse Group has constantly pursued “Benesse (well-being)” and focused on “people” to support the realization of their dreams and ideals. [0] This is the black company in the third spot. Curious. [0] https://www.benesse.co.jp/brand/en/about/

This the parent company that sued the union for going on strike and was struck down on all counts by the Tokyo High Court.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007%E2%80%932008_Berlitz_Ja...

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#54

Post by vr46 »

peterlk wrote: post #5
vr46 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this has gone a long way to make me feel better about not keeping up my Japanese language skills after university. My youthful deep reverence for Japan and its culture shifted into realpolitik as I learned more and more, and I think another watch of Fear And Trembling is in order…

Totally unrelated… I’m really excited to see VR46 as a username, especially since the championship was today

A good season, with the front runners doing something really special at times. Conflicted fan of the sprints and so many races due to the pressure to squeeze money from the sport, but enjoying the extra racing.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#55

Post by anovikov »

Why don't they just emigrate? Work culture seems to be better just about everywhere and on top of that, salaries in Japan are shit, and anyone with half the Japanese work ethics will be a dream employee in U.S. or let alone Europe which is full of entitled, lazy slackers.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#56

Post by ninetyninenine »

mc3301 wrote: post #48
ninetyninenine wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kinda want to go there and purchase a 10k house in a village and chill. It’s basically a place where you can retire. I know a bunch of white people who have already done this. Just like how Japan isn’t characterized fully by anime it’s not fully characterized by corporate culture either.

Do you actually know many people (not through social media) that did this? I live here, and I know a few but they mostly fall into one of two camps. 1) Moving into and maintaining the house/land/community relationships is a labor of love, which involves a lot of work or 2) They don't last long once they realize the physical labor, the mental load of the language/culture/isolation. I'm in the process of buying a house…

I Airbnbed in the place of one guy who did it. And I know one more. The rest are on social media like you said.

I think if a bunch of people just go into town and do it together it will be less isolating.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#58

Post by kstenerud »

I still remember the day of the explosion down the road from our office in Nagoya. The worker had been driven to such desperation and rage that he sealed himself off in the boss's office after dousing everything (including himself) in gasoline.

The cops were there, trying to talk him down, but the fumes had reached such a concentration that the next time the aircon kicked in, the place exploded.

The worker exploitation in Japan is BAD, and has been for decades. When you employ someone, you don't technically own them, but culturally you absolutely do.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#59

Post by Iulioh »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #11
infotainment wrote: post #2

> "I can't quit the job. If I say I'm going to quit, I'll be threatened that I will have to pay damages for quitting." Interestingly, this is actually possible under Japanese law/legal precedent. If an employee, for example, decides to put in notice and then half-ass their job until their departure date, a company could actually sue the employee and win. Other Japan-labor-law fun fact: if you are a contract worker, i…

The majority of developed countries have subtle versions of this. I was naive about this before I worked outside the US and saw the practical impact. The chains go both ways and have real downsides. Having seen the perverse incentives this creates and the various ways in which it can be abused, I have come to the conclusion that the American “at-will” employment model is actually a good thing and benefits workers. No…

I think your opinion is influenced by probability being a well off professional in a field where you can easily find another job, maybe phisical location is not even that important.

Just an hypothesis.

I prefer the "chains on both sides" approach for the society.

Re: How Japanese black companies oppress workers (2014)

#60

Post by autumnstwilight »

anovikov wrote: post #55

Why don't they just emigrate? Work culture seems to be better just about everywhere and on top of that, salaries in Japan are shit, and anyone with half the Japanese work ethics will be a dream employee in U.S. or let alone Europe which is full of entitled, lazy slackers.

At least in IT, it's not even necessary to emigrate- foreign owned companies offer significantly better salaries and working conditions.

The sticking point is English ability. It's genuinely a very difficult thing to learn a second language to the point of being workplace-functional in it, and an additional level of daily stress and mental effort to do everything in your non-native language. The culture here doesn't exactly reward risk-taking and failing in public, and unfortunately becoming proficient in a language requires that you stumble through things a lot while you practice. Furthermore, most Japanese people have experienced fairly ineffective methods of teaching English in schools and ended up rather demoralized about their ability to learn it. (And if you're currently in a job that demands a lot of overtime, when do you study?)

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