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Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

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Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#131
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you compare what Russia has done in the same time frame?

Oh well. We certainly didn't help it doing it or gave it diplomatic support, in any case. Besides, ethnic cleansing and genocide are their own special kind of evil- I'm not sure Russia is guilty also of that.

You may find the following links very informative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gulag_Archipelago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_transfer_in_the_Sov...

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#132
post #51
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Is it? Hamas and Hezbollah deliberately place their military infrastructure among civilians. I'm not eager to defend Hamas or Hezbollah, but for Gaza, is there a lot of free space? Using human shields anyhow, does NOT mean it's the other's fault if you bomb then. It's entirely your own decision, if you know that they're there. Do you really think there was no other way, to deal with the problem? Personally, for me…

> for me the most absurd aspect of the situation is that you're creating an enormous amount of members for the Hamas' of the future.

This has become a very common argument, and is indeed true, but it's also hypocritically incomplete.

You're creating an enormous amount of members for the Hamas of the future and they will be right in fighting you. Exactly as the current Hamas members are right in fighting you today.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has far more influence in the US than the US does in Israel. It is very clear that the current administration is backed into a corner and trying to make the best of the situation. FWIW: This is not a knock against the current administration.

> It is very clear that the current administration is backed into a corner and trying to make the best of the situation. This does not seem clear at all. What has led you to think so?

There are two points here. The first is due to AIPAC. I would say the second is debatable.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#134
post #5

"Israel has also said that UN forces are being used as a human shield by Hizbollah fighters, which it is fighting near several Unifil posts along the border. It has demanded the UN evacuate its peacekeepers from southern Lebanon for their own safety. Unifil, and the 50 countries that contribute troops to its ranks, have unanimously refused." Why aren't the UN troops keeping the peace? Did they let Hezbollah fire rock…

Unifil has been there since the '70s, apparently. Their role was to monitor Israel's withdrawal and to assist the Lebanese government, to patrol the Blue Line and various humanitarian tasks. They're not a counterinsurgency force or an occupying army - as I understand it, they're a tripwire for treaty enforcement. Also, you don't get to shoot through human shields. It's still immoral to kill noncombatants, just as it'…

In war, you care more about losing/winning than a moral high ground - an imaginary prize for the “superior” nation who chooses to appear weak.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#135
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But beheaded babies and babies in ovens portrays a different level of atrocities being committed. This kind of fictional atrocity dissemination is very similar to the approach used during the Gulf War[1]. More importantly, the point is that Western media outlets - who have always proclaimed to be arbiters of truth, objectivity & journalistic integrity - neither did the absolute basic fact checking required before pub…

I'm not going to disagree with you about the media sucking, but for what it's worth, I think every side thinks that. I am pro-Israel and have the same feelings about other stories that were rushed, not vetted, wrong, and never apologized for.

Just one thing: you mentioned the "girls" (in fact soldiers) with "bloody pants" in your previous comment. It's quite a stretch to go from bloody pants to "victim of rape".

Indeed, this picture came out much later:

https://www.instagram.com/israelmfa/p/C7Q1v38tKql/

Shows what appears to be the famous "bloody pants" soldier sitting on the floor close to other presumably injured soldiers after some sort of combat. Isn't that the most obvious way of getting "bloody pants"? Why the leap from those to unfounded rape accusations?

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#136
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 1986, then-U.S. Sen. Joe Biden said, “Supporting Israel is the best $3 billion investment we make. Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interests in the region.” Israel is a satellite state of the US in all but name. You'd have a better shot at dissolving the UN entirely than suspending Israel. What ive always wondered is why the US hasn't put Israel…

> Israel is a satellite state of the US in all but name. The US is more reflexively pro-Israel than Israel is pro-US in international policy, the opposite of what you’d expect if Israel was a US vassal. > What ive always wondered is why the US hasn't put Israel on the security council There are lots of reasons, but one that renders all the others secondary is that the US can’t add permanent Security Council members .…

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Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> decided to join in on the side of Hamas by shooting rockets You answered your own objection then.

No, I didn't: your assertion still doesn't make sense. No Oct 2023 attackers came from Lebanon (it's quite a long distance away from southern Israel after all), so how exactly are they supposed to "give them up"? They're all in Gaza. Hezbollah doesn't control Gaza.

So basically they would just have to stop shooting rockets at Israel and it would be over?

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#138
post #115
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's because social media has relayed the truth and Israel can no longer use its grip on western media to conceal its atrocities.

[flagged]

Unlikely, I sampled the hn users in this discussion. Most are a few years old, and have karma.

Hn is not important enough to warrant a multi year psyops, so these are probably actual humans.

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I didn't: your assertion still doesn't make sense. No Oct 2023 attackers came from Lebanon (it's quite a long distance away from southern Israel after all), so how exactly are they supposed to "give them up"? They're all in Gaza. Hezbollah doesn't control Gaza.

So basically they would just have to stop shooting rockets at Israel and it would be over?

I suppose; I'm simply addressing the part about "giving up" the Oct 2023 attackers. They aren't in Lebanon anywhere, so there's no way to "give them up".

Re: Israel launched a dozen attacks on UN troops in Lebanon, says leaked report

#140
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 1986, then-U.S. Sen. Joe Biden said, “Supporting Israel is the best $3 billion investment we make. Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interests in the region.” Israel is a satellite state of the US in all but name. You'd have a better shot at dissolving the UN entirely than suspending Israel. What ive always wondered is why the US hasn't put Israel…

Israel has far more influence in the US than the US does in Israel. It is very clear that the current administration is backed into a corner and trying to make the best of the situation. FWIW: This is not a knock against the current administration.

This is often repeated but is historically VERY incorrect. Yes, Israel does lobbying in the states and does influence (like every other country). The current Israeli government is indeed terrible and blatant at that.

However, Israel left Gaza in 2005 with no deal as part of US pressure (which led to the current situation). Israel offered a Palestinians a country which included east Jerusalem twice based on US pressure. Israel left Lebanon alone due to such pressure.

Israel didn't attack Lebanon for a year and tried to settle due to US pressure despite an average of 25 rockets per day towards civilian population.

Imagine a country being attacked and fired on for nearly 20 years (by Hamas) and keeping reposes "moderate". That's US pressure and influence right there. Israel delayed going into Rafah due to US pressure, it turns out Sinwar and quite a few hostages were there...

The reason it seems that US pressure isn't working is mostly because no one knows what to do exactly. Hostages are still held by Hamas. Hezbollah is still firing rockets/drones even now. I'm 100% for a hostage exchange but right now there's no deal, part of that is because of Netanyahu (who is terrible) but not all of it. The US can't fire Netanyahu (I wish they could...), and that's a problem. They want to strengthen anti-Netanyahu forces within Israel while still moderating its actions, that's a very tight rope to walk on.

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