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Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

bloomberg.com

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Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#61

Post by krick »

newZWhoDis wrote: post #53
jmugan wrote: post #18

My daughter was accused of turning in an essay written by AI because the school software at her online school said so. Her mom watched her write the essay. I thought it was common knowledge that it was impossible to tell whether text was generated by AI. Evidently, the software vendors are either ignorant or are lying, and school administrators are believing them.

The education system in the US is broadly staffed by the dumbest people from every walk of life. If they could make it elsewhere, they would. I don’t expect this to be a popular take here, and most replies will be NAXALT fallacies, but in aggregate it’s the truth. Sorry, your retired CEO physics teacher who you loved was not a representative sample.

It's not just USA, it's pretty much universal, as much as I've seen it. People like to pretend like it's some sort of noble profession, but I vividly remember having a conversation with recently graduated ex-classmates, where one of them was complaining that she failed to pass at every department she applied to, so she has no other choice than to apply for department of education (I guess? I don't know what is the name of the American equivalent of that thing: bachelor-level program for people who are going to be teachers). At that moment I felt suddenly validated in all my complaints about the system we just passed through.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#62

Post by JumpCrisscross »

newZWhoDis wrote: post #53
jmugan wrote: post #18

My daughter was accused of turning in an essay written by AI because the school software at her online school said so. Her mom watched her write the essay. I thought it was common knowledge that it was impossible to tell whether text was generated by AI. Evidently, the software vendors are either ignorant or are lying, and school administrators are believing them.

The education system in the US is broadly staffed by the dumbest people from every walk of life. If they could make it elsewhere, they would. I don’t expect this to be a popular take here, and most replies will be NAXALT fallacies, but in aggregate it’s the truth. Sorry, your retired CEO physics teacher who you loved was not a representative sample.

> your retired CEO physics teacher who you loved was not a representative sample

Hey, he was Microsoft’s patent attorney who retired to teach calculus!

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#63

Post by stephenbez »

Are any students coming up with a process to prove their innocents when they get falsely accused?

If I was still in school I would write my docs in a Google Doc which provides the edit history. I could potentially also record video of me typing the entire document as well or screen recording my screen.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#64

Post by mazamats »

prepend wrote: post #22

My kids’ school added a new weapons scanner as kids walk in the door. It’s powered by “AI.” They trust the AI quite a bit. However, the AI identifies the school issued Lenovo laptops as weapons. So every kid was flagged. Rather than stopping using such a stupid tool, they just have the kids remove their laptops before going through the scanner. I expect not smart enough people are buying “AI” products and trusting th…

I could see a student hollowing out the laptop and hiding a weapon inside to sneak it in if thats the case

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#65

Post by moandcompany »

m463 wrote: post #34
moandcompany wrote: post #24

I'm looking forward to the dystopian sci-fi film "Minority Book Report"

We should make an AI model called Fahrenheit 451B to detect unauthorized books.

Open Farenheit 451B will be in charge of detecting unauthorized books and streaming media, as well as unauthorized popcorn or bread.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#66

Post by ameister14 »

borski wrote: post #28
ameister14 wrote: post #20

The article mentions 'responsible' grammarly usage, which I think is an oxymoron in an undergraduate or high school setting. Undergrad and high school is where you learn to write coherently. Grammarly is a tool that actively works against that goal because it doesn't train students to fix the grammatical mistakes, it just fixes it for them and they become steadily worse (and less detail oriented) writers. I have abso…

My wife is dyslexic; grammarly makes suggestions, but it doesn’t fix it for her. Perhaps that’s a feature she doesn’t have turned on? She loves it. It doesn’t cause her to be any less attentive to her writing; it just makes it possible to write.

>It doesn’t cause her to be any less attentive to her writing; it just makes it possible to write.

I was not really referring to accommodations under the ADA. For people that do not require accommodations, the use of them is unfair to their classmates and can be detrimental to their ability to perform without them in the future, as there is no requirement to have the accommodations available to them. This is not the case for someone with dyslexia.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#67

Post by JumpCrisscross »

xnyan wrote: post #39
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the teacher can produce no proof For an assignment completed at home, on a student's device using software of a student's choosing, there can essentially be no proof. If the situation you describe becomes common, it might make sense for a school to invest into a web-based text editor that capture keystrokes and user state and requiring students use that for at-home text-based assignments. That or eliminating take-h…

>For an assignment completed at home, on a student's device using software of a student's choosing, there can essentially be no proof According to an undergraduate student who babysits for our child, some students are literally screen recording the entire writing process, or even recording themselves writing at their computers as a defense against claims of using AI. I don't know how effective that defense is in prac…

I hate that because it implies a presumption of guilt.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#68

Post by Gud »

krick wrote: post #61
newZWhoDis wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The education system in the US is broadly staffed by the dumbest people from every walk of life. If they could make it elsewhere, they would. I don’t expect this to be a popular take here, and most replies will be NAXALT fallacies, but in aggregate it’s the truth. Sorry, your retired CEO physics teacher who you loved was not a representative sample.

It's not just USA, it's pretty much universal, as much as I've seen it. People like to pretend like it's some sort of noble profession, but I vividly remember having a conversation with recently graduated ex-classmates, where one of them was complaining that she failed to pass at every department she applied to, so she has no other choice than to apply for department of education (I guess? I don't know what is the na…

In some countries teaching is a highly respected profession.

Switzerland and Finland comes to mind.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#69

Post by rfrey »

borski wrote: post #25
lelandfe wrote: post #5

The challenging thing is, cheating students also say they're being falsely accused. Tough times in academia right now. Cheating became free, simple, and ubiquitous overnight. Cheating services built on top of ChatGPT advertise to college students; Chrome extensions exist that just solve your homework for you.

I don’t know how to break this to you, but cheating was always free, simple, and ubiquitous. Sure, ChatGPT wouldn’t write your paper; but your buddy who needed his math problem solved would. Or find a paper on countless sites on the Internet.

That's just not so. Most profs were in school years before the internet was ubiquitous. And asking a friend to do your work for you is simple, but far from free.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#70

Post by rahimnathwani »

borski wrote: post #25
lelandfe wrote: post #5

The challenging thing is, cheating students also say they're being falsely accused. Tough times in academia right now. Cheating became free, simple, and ubiquitous overnight. Cheating services built on top of ChatGPT advertise to college students; Chrome extensions exist that just solve your homework for you.

I don’t know how to break this to you, but cheating was always free, simple, and ubiquitous. Sure, ChatGPT wouldn’t write your paper; but your buddy who needed his math problem solved would. Or find a paper on countless sites on the Internet.

It wasn't always free. Look at Chegg's revenue trend since ChatGPT came out.
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