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Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

bloomberg.com

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Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#21

Post by jameslevy »

gradus_ad wrote: post #12

Seems like the easy fix here is move all evaluation in-class. Are schools really that reliant on internet/computer based assignments? Actually, this could be a great opportunity to dial back unnecessary and wasteful edu-tech creep.

The only longterm solution that makes sense is to allow students to use AI tools and to require a log provided by the AI tool to be provided. Adjust the assignment accordingly and use custom system prompts for the AI tools so that the students are both learning about the underlying subject and also learning how to effectively use AI tools.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#22

Post by prepend »

My kids’ school added a new weapons scanner as kids walk in the door. It’s powered by “AI.” They trust the AI quite a bit.

However, the AI identifies the school issued Lenovo laptops as weapons. So every kid was flagged. Rather than stopping using such a stupid tool, they just have the kids remove their laptops before going through the scanner.

I expect not smart enough people are buying “AI” products and trusting them to do the things they want them to do, but don’t work.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#23

Post by deepsquirrelnet »

deckiedan wrote: post #8
rowanG077 wrote: post #7

This has nothing to do with AI, but rather about proof. If a teacher said to a student you cheated and the student disputes it. Then in front of the dean or whatever the teacher can produce no proof of course the student would be absolved. Why is some random tool (AI or not) saying they cheated without proof suddenly taken as truth?

The AI tool report shown to the dean with "85% match" Will be used as "proof". If you want more proof, then you can take the essay, give it to chatGPT and say, "Please give me a report showing how this essay is written to en by AI." People treat AI like it's an omniscient god.

I think what you pointed out is exactly the problem. Administrators apparently don’t understand statistics and therefore can’t be trusted to utilize the outputs of statistical tools correctly.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#25

Post by borski »

lelandfe wrote: post #5

The challenging thing is, cheating students also say they're being falsely accused. Tough times in academia right now. Cheating became free, simple, and ubiquitous overnight. Cheating services built on top of ChatGPT advertise to college students; Chrome extensions exist that just solve your homework for you.

I don’t know how to break this to you, but cheating was always free, simple, and ubiquitous. Sure, ChatGPT wouldn’t write your paper; but your buddy who needed his math problem solved would. Or find a paper on countless sites on the Internet.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#26

Post by clipsy »

jmugan wrote: post #18

My daughter was accused of turning in an essay written by AI because the school software at her online school said so. Her mom watched her write the essay. I thought it was common knowledge that it was impossible to tell whether text was generated by AI. Evidently, the software vendors are either ignorant or are lying, and school administrators are believing them.

> Evidently, the software vendors are either ignorant or are lying

I’ll give you a hint: they’re not ignorant.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#27

Post by borski »

happymellon wrote: post #19
rowanG077 wrote: post #7

This has nothing to do with AI, but rather about proof. If a teacher said to a student you cheated and the student disputes it. Then in front of the dean or whatever the teacher can produce no proof of course the student would be absolved. Why is some random tool (AI or not) saying they cheated without proof suddenly taken as truth?

Unfortunately with AI, AI detection, and schools its all rather Judge Dredd. They issue the claim, the judgement and the penalty. And there is nothing you can do about it. Why? Because they *are* the law.

That’s not even remotely true. You can raise it with the local board of education. You can sue the board and/or the school.

You can sue the university, and likely even win.

They literally are not the law, and that is why you can take them to court.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#28

Post by borski »

ameister14 wrote: post #20

The article mentions 'responsible' grammarly usage, which I think is an oxymoron in an undergraduate or high school setting. Undergrad and high school is where you learn to write coherently. Grammarly is a tool that actively works against that goal because it doesn't train students to fix the grammatical mistakes, it just fixes it for them and they become steadily worse (and less detail oriented) writers. I have abso…

My wife is dyslexic; grammarly makes suggestions, but it doesn’t fix it for her. Perhaps that’s a feature she doesn’t have turned on?

She loves it. It doesn’t cause her to be any less attentive to her writing; it just makes it possible to write.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#29

Post by borski »

underseacables wrote: post #14
rowanG077 wrote: post #7

This has nothing to do with AI, but rather about proof. If a teacher said to a student you cheated and the student disputes it. Then in front of the dean or whatever the teacher can produce no proof of course the student would be absolved. Why is some random tool (AI or not) saying they cheated without proof suddenly taken as truth?

Universities don't exactly decide guilt by proof. If their system says you're guilty, that's pretty much it.

Source? I was accused of a couple things (not plagiarism) at my university and was absolutely allowed to present a case, and due to a lack of evidence it was tossed and never spoken of again.

So no, you don’t exactly get a trial by a jury of your peers, but it isn’t like they are averse to evidence being presented.

This evidence would be fairly trivial to refute, but I agree it is a burden no student needs or wants.

Re: Do AI detectors work? Students face false cheating accusations

#30

Post by HarryHirsch »

borski wrote: post #27
happymellon wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately with AI, AI detection, and schools its all rather Judge Dredd. They issue the claim, the judgement and the penalty. And there is nothing you can do about it. Why? Because they *are* the law.

That’s not even remotely true. You can raise it with the local board of education. You can sue the board and/or the school. You can sue the university, and likely even win. They literally are not the law, and that is why you can take them to court.

In real life it looks like this: https://www.foxnews.com/us/massachusetts-parents-sue-school-...

A kid living in a wealthy Boston suburb used AI for his essay (that much is not in doubt) and the family is now suing the district because the school objected and his chances of getting into a good finishing school have dropped.

On the other hand you have students attending abusive online universities who are flagged by their plagiarism detector and they wouldn't ever think of availing themselves of the law. US law is for the rich, the purpose of a system is what it does.

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