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FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

ftc.gov

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Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#361

Post by vel0city »

inetknght wrote: post #348
Uehreka wrote: post #190

When people try and say that regulating stuff like this is impossible, I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. There really seems to be no loophole or workaround despite there being huge incentive for there to be one. Every time I click an “Unsubscribe” link in an email (it seems like they’re forced to say “Unsubscribe” and not use weasel words to hide the…

> I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. The sheer number of comments that think the state of "unsubscribe" is good is... saddening. I should not have to click a link to "unsubscribe" from something that I did not subscribe to. There's no recourse for me against these thieves.

So what, people should only be able to email you if you've previously emailed them? How am I supposed to know who I'm allowed to email?

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#362

Post by doctorpangloss »

justinpombrio wrote: post #265
Uehreka wrote: post #190

When people try and say that regulating stuff like this is impossible, I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. There really seems to be no loophole or workaround despite there being huge incentive for there to be one. Every time I click an “Unsubscribe” link in an email (it seems like they’re forced to say “Unsubscribe” and not use weasel words to hide the…

Unsubscribe links are a fantastic regulation, but there is a workaround. I must have received at least a dozen emails from Brown after graduating despite unsubscribing to every email they sent. The trouble is they're endlessly creative about the lists they put you on. I'd get one email from "Alumni Connections" and then another from "Faculty Spotlight" and then another from "Global Outreach" and then another from "Ev…

Inventing a new mailing list and adding you to it is exactly the workaround.

Anyway, email delivery is regulated by Microsoft and Google.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#363

Post by pcurve »

justinpombrio wrote: post #265
Uehreka wrote: post #190

When people try and say that regulating stuff like this is impossible, I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. There really seems to be no loophole or workaround despite there being huge incentive for there to be one. Every time I click an “Unsubscribe” link in an email (it seems like they’re forced to say “Unsubscribe” and not use weasel words to hide the…

Unsubscribe links are a fantastic regulation, but there is a workaround. I must have received at least a dozen emails from Brown after graduating despite unsubscribing to every email they sent. The trouble is they're endlessly creative about the lists they put you on. I'd get one email from "Alumni Connections" and then another from "Faculty Spotlight" and then another from "Global Outreach" and then another from "Ev…

Sounds more like non-compliance than a workaround, banking on their alumni being more forgiving to it. ;-)

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#364

Post by Bjartr »

danaris wrote: post #343
Uehreka wrote: post #190

When people try and say that regulating stuff like this is impossible, I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. There really seems to be no loophole or workaround despite there being huge incentive for there to be one. Every time I click an “Unsubscribe” link in an email (it seems like they’re forced to say “Unsubscribe” and not use weasel words to hide the…

Unfortunately, it's not foolproof. During the ~20 years that my predecessor in my current job worked in it, it gradually evolved from being primarily a hardware position with a little software development to primarily a software position with a little hardware building. My moderate expertise with electronic hardware helped get me the job, but then I basically never had to use it in the ~15 years I've been here. I sti…

Report them here https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/

The FAQ confirms this is the correct place to report email spam https://reportfraud.ftc.gov/faq

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#365

Post by armada651 »

inetknght wrote: post #353
ksd482 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I have noticed companies do is resume emails after a year or so. They probably think people would forget about unsubscribing them after a year, and for the most part they are right. If I catch any of these email lists not respecting my unsubscribing, I immediately mark them as "spam". Gmail then doesn't send them to my inbox anymore. I don't think just one person marking them as spam hurts them, but at least I f…

> I immediately mark them as "spam". Ahh yes, the feel-good response that Google gives you without doing anything substantial to prevent spam from reaching you in the future.

If you were using self-hosted e-mail everywhere, then it would be quite obvious that large providers like Google do massively benefit from those user reports when filtering spam.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#366

Post by llm_nerd »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #96

It would be great to see the FTC go against predatory subscription services like Adobe. I'm fuzzy on the exact details, but I think they promoted a yearly subscription that was meant to look like a monthly subscription, where if you cancelled early they would charge you an exorbitant cancellation fee. I'm not sure how these new rules affect them. One recent idea I've had is that many online subscription services shou…

While the Adobe thing is the common punching bag, I'm going to play devil's advocate and say that people probably need to either be more honest, or need to pay more attention.

When you subscribe there are three prices given-

Monthly, Annual paid monthly, and Annual prepaid. The Annual paid monthly very clearly indicates that there is a fee if you cancel after 14 days. The annual paid monthly is some 33% less expensive than monthly, with the downside that you're committing for a year, or to pay a termination fee if you cancel early.

https://imgur.com/a/ldhiEtf

This has been extremely clear for years. Like you have to be blind to not see a "Monthly" that costs much more at the top, then one called "Annual billed monthly" and not have paused to do some diligence.

Adobe does a lot of shady stuff, but on this topic we seem to hear the most from careless, thoughtless, or selfish people who think they figured out how to game the system. Kind of like the "my laptop got stolen out of my car and it had the only copy of all of my important documents and the doctoral thesis I've been working on for seven years" stories, at some point we have to not be so naive with people's foolishness.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#367

Post by kemitche »

inetknght wrote: post #353
ksd482 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I have noticed companies do is resume emails after a year or so. They probably think people would forget about unsubscribing them after a year, and for the most part they are right. If I catch any of these email lists not respecting my unsubscribing, I immediately mark them as "spam". Gmail then doesn't send them to my inbox anymore. I don't think just one person marking them as spam hurts them, but at least I f…

> I immediately mark them as "spam". Ahh yes, the feel-good response that Google gives you without doing anything substantial to prevent spam from reaching you in the future.

What makes you say that? In my experience, the spam button works fantastically. There is a gym of some kind that has me on their mailing list, refuses to honor unsubscribe, and sends me probably 2-6 emails a month. They've been doing this for years, but Google correctly gets every single one into spam because I marked one (several?) as spam years ago.

Most, if not all, political junk email also ends up in my spam folder after judicious use of the spam button a few years ago.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#368

Post by llm_nerd »

megiddo wrote: post #309
arrosenberg wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think they promoted a yearly subscription that was meant to look like a monthly subscription, where if you cancelled early they would charge you an exorbitant cancellation fee. I'm not sure how these new rules affect them. I don't think it's the same situation. What Adobe was doing was offering a yearly subscription, charged monthly. If you tried to cancel, it would ask for payment to either cover the rest of the…

I mean, maybe technically. But the "its yearly with a cancellation fee" was not qualified in the sales information on the sign-up page. Maybe it was in the fine print. Given that customers are quite used to a monthly fee is a monthly subscription model, it was disingenuous at best. Putting significant terms in the fine print doesn't exactly engender trust.

https://imgur.com/a/ldhiEtf

There is no fine print. It is extremely clear and obvious. If you see a term called "Annual paid monthly", 33% less expensive than a monthly option right above, what possible other interpretation can someone have?

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#369

Post by bluGill »

pests wrote: post #321
bluGill wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some regulations help me. I'm glad I don't have to sort through all the pipes to find lead free ones. However some hurt me - I know very well how to do electric work and so having to hire an electrician costs me money I don't have (as opposed to an inspector who is much cheaper since they only verify I did the work right).

In my area the homeowner can do all electrical work. Still needs inspected. Are you sure you need to hire an electrician in your jurisdiction?

This is specific to my town, if I lived across the street in a different town I wouldn't need to. Unfortunately I didn't know this detail until after I bought the house.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#370

Post by rtkwe »

rootusrootus wrote: post #326
cortesoft wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, I remember when Amazon Prime first started, I signed up for the free trial to get free shipping on something. Of course, I forgot about it and didn’t cancel, but then I got an email from Amazon saying, “hey, you didn’t cancel your prime subscription but you also haven’t used it at all, so we are going to not charge you and cancel it for now. Here is how you easily restart your subscription if you end up needing…

Early Amazon was pro-customer in a way that I think most people have forgotten. Maybe that was always the strategy? They were losing money for years, and maybe that was investing in the company, or maybe it was allowing really large losses to keep customers happy, planning all along to eventually clamp down when people were addicted. And here we are. Their return rate is still pretty terrible, IIRC. I bet they are tr…

The way Amazon was "losing money" in the early years was all intense reinvestment though so they could at any point pretty easily tune their profit making by turning down the ridiculous amount of warehouses they were building for one example.
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