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FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

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Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#351

Post by darkhelmet »

rootusrootus wrote: post #223
conradev wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

California did this: > Guests in California will see a fee-inclusive total price—before taxes—on all listings. https://www.airbnb.com/help/article/3610 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml...

> before taxes Now they just need to fix that part.

Right up front: I agree. But, implementing this will be an absolute PITA because so many other things are systemically broken.

Case in point: cost breakdown from the invoice of an online order a few months ago (with the dollar amounts removed):

> Subtotal

> Shipping (Economy)

> Tax (Solano County Tax 0.25%)

> Tax (Vacaville City Tax 0.75%)

> Tax (Solano County District Tax Sp 0.125%)

> Tax (Solano Co Local Tax Sl 1.0%)

> Tax (California State Tax 6.0%)

Once your address is known taxes can be calculated. At what point is an after-tax final price to be shown? On an ad? On a targeted Ad? Once you reach the storefront based on unreliable geolocation? (which would be wrong for me, because geolocation bundles two cities here together as one) Once you create an account? At the checkout when you've specified the shipping address? As things tend to happen today, its usually only at the last step.

As much as I'd like to see it, I don't see much chance of improving the visibility of final prices without comprehensive systemic tax reform first.

The obvious quick solutions aren't exactly fair in the current US system. Imagine a "quick fix" of requiring the vendors to price in-a generic taxes for everyone. Just like with credit card system fees, "simple" fixes like that that benefit the residents of high-sales-tax states to the detriment of no-sales-tax state residents. While such a system would work for physical stores, they would get hammered if they had to prices on the shelves or signs that were higher than online prices.

As much as we all want a fair straight-forward system, I don't imagine it happening any time soon in the US. There are way too many unresolved zero-sum political fights and ideological differences standing in the way.

It certainly can be done (eg: Australia) but the circumstances there were very different.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#352

Post by ClarityJones »

battle-racket wrote: post #244
amatecha wrote: post #67

Nice. I canceled a service recently and I had to "continue to cancel" and click on other such "confirmations" such that I think I proceeded through 7-8 pages before my subscription was actually canceled. Truly manipulative and obtuse. That was Spotify btw. I should have recorded the process, as it was nearly comedic (if it weren't so hostile).

At least they didn't make you make a phone call and have a rep try to prevent you from doing so for an hour (looking at you NYT).

The phone rep is almost easier, because all they can do is withhold their confirmation. So, I told the Sirius guy who I was and that they were no longer authorized to charge my card, hung up, and wrote a note in my files. Sirius charged me again, and I submitted a chargeback. Quick and easy.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#353

Post by inetknght »

ksd482 wrote: post #324
justinpombrio wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unsubscribe links are a fantastic regulation, but there is a workaround. I must have received at least a dozen emails from Brown after graduating despite unsubscribing to every email they sent. The trouble is they're endlessly creative about the lists they put you on. I'd get one email from "Alumni Connections" and then another from "Faculty Spotlight" and then another from "Global Outreach" and then another from "Ev…

What I have noticed companies do is resume emails after a year or so. They probably think people would forget about unsubscribing them after a year, and for the most part they are right. If I catch any of these email lists not respecting my unsubscribing, I immediately mark them as "spam". Gmail then doesn't send them to my inbox anymore. I don't think just one person marking them as spam hurts them, but at least I f…

> I immediately mark them as "spam".

Ahh yes, the feel-good response that Google gives you without doing anything substantial to prevent spam from reaching you in the future.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#354

Post by xnx »

ajkjk wrote: post #28

There are so many things like this that have needed fixing for such a long time. The fact that something is happening, even slowly, is so heartening. If your reaction is wondering if this is legal then you should be interested in the passing of new laws that make it unequivocally legal. Society should be able to govern itself.

I much prefer this type of government intervention than picking winners (Apple) and losers (Google) with regard to app stores.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#355

Post by xnx »

schmookeeg wrote: post #42
ajkjk wrote: post #28

There are so many things like this that have needed fixing for such a long time. The fact that something is happening, even slowly, is so heartening. If your reaction is wondering if this is legal then you should be interested in the passing of new laws that make it unequivocally legal. Society should be able to govern itself.

Came to say this too, basically. The FTC is currently a bright candle in the swamp. I think we need a word for this work. Maybe disenshittification? :)

> I think we need a word for this work.

Consumer protection

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#356

Post by Bjartr »

inetknght wrote: post #348
Uehreka wrote: post #190

When people try and say that regulating stuff like this is impossible, I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. There really seems to be no loophole or workaround despite there being huge incentive for there to be one. Every time I click an “Unsubscribe” link in an email (it seems like they’re forced to say “Unsubscribe” and not use weasel words to hide the…

> I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. The sheer number of comments that think the state of "unsubscribe" is good is... saddening. I should not have to click a link to "unsubscribe" from something that I did not subscribe to. There's no recourse for me against these thieves.

The state of Unsubscribe is good. Imagine how much worse things would be if legit businesses had no reason to make it easy to unsubscribe in such a consistent way like we do today.

That other problems also exist doesn't mean this solution for this thing isn't good.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#357

Post by Bjartr »

afh1 wrote: post #350
Uehreka wrote: post #190

When people try and say that regulating stuff like this is impossible, I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. There really seems to be no loophole or workaround despite there being huge incentive for there to be one. Every time I click an “Unsubscribe” link in an email (it seems like they’re forced to say “Unsubscribe” and not use weasel words to hide the…

In my experience "unsubscribe" emails often do not work at all. SimpleLogin is the only way.

We must interact with very different businesses, "unsubscribe" not working is an extremely rare thing for me to encounter. Maybe once or twice a year out of using it dozens of times.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#358

Post by hnburnsy »

Uehreka wrote: post #190

When people try and say that regulating stuff like this is impossible, I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. There really seems to be no loophole or workaround despite there being huge incentive for there to be one. Every time I click an “Unsubscribe” link in an email (it seems like they’re forced to say “Unsubscribe” and not use weasel words to hide the…

>There really seems to be no loophole or workaround despite there being huge incentive for there to be one. Every time I click an “Unsubscribe” link in an email...

The loophole is that companies now claim that the email is 'service' related as part of your 'account relationship' so you cannot unsubscribe at all, even though it clearly is for marketing and promotion.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#359

Post by paradox460 »

Uehreka wrote: post #190

When people try and say that regulating stuff like this is impossible, I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. There really seems to be no loophole or workaround despite there being huge incentive for there to be one. Every time I click an “Unsubscribe” link in an email (it seems like they’re forced to say “Unsubscribe” and not use weasel words to hide the…

Until the link tries to redirect through their click tracking service, and is blocked by my firewall. Really dislike that

Imo it should be a single header that points to a url that accepts a post payload. Email clients could then surface the link

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#360

Post by nijave »

Uehreka wrote: post #190

When people try and say that regulating stuff like this is impossible, I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. There really seems to be no loophole or workaround despite there being huge incentive for there to be one. Every time I click an “Unsubscribe” link in an email (it seems like they’re forced to say “Unsubscribe” and not use weasel words to hide the…

There is additional incentive here. Companies that make it hard to unsubscribe risk being reported as spam which impacts their deliverability. It's in company's best interest to allow a straight forward opt out or risk getting blocked.
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