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FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

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Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#321

Post by pests »

bluGill wrote: post #308
jfengel wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that "excessive regulation" often means "regulations that inconvenience me". Often regulations are put in place to help somebody else, and they are met with wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Some regulations help me. I'm glad I don't have to sort through all the pipes to find lead free ones. However some hurt me - I know very well how to do electric work and so having to hire an electrician costs me money I don't have (as opposed to an inspector who is much cheaper since they only verify I did the work right).

In my area the homeowner can do all electrical work. Still needs inspected.

Are you sure you need to hire an electrician in your jurisdiction?

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#322

Post by r00fus »

pirate787 wrote: post #295
deanputney wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes should also be included in the advertised price, then. Just imagine!

Actually there's a purpose to keeping taxes separate. Policymakers want the tax burden to be visible, it is not part of price transparency because the vendor has nothing to do with the tax rate.

US policymakers want this. Euro/Asian policymakers have moved beyond this - whenever you travel you pay the sticker on the tin.

It's a solved problem but we can't make it happen here. Why?

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#323

Post by know-how »

joering2 wrote: post #71
SoftTalker wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe they also offer a "stop allowing charges by this merchant" feature If they have this it's another reason to use them for automatic billing. I have tried to do this with a VISA card and they said they cannot do it; the only way to prevent future charges would be to close that account entirely and even then I might still get billed for some period of time.

American Express is a very special card that typically comes with annual fee that is very much worth it. I would never book any hotels, buy plane tickets or signup in any form of membership with any other card because I got burnt way too many times with Visa and MC is even worse. Also that's why businesses typically do not like AE because how easy it is to dispute the charge. But to add - I discourage you from using…

[dead]

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#324

Post by ksd482 »

justinpombrio wrote: post #265
Uehreka wrote: post #190

When people try and say that regulating stuff like this is impossible, I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. There really seems to be no loophole or workaround despite there being huge incentive for there to be one. Every time I click an “Unsubscribe” link in an email (it seems like they’re forced to say “Unsubscribe” and not use weasel words to hide the…

Unsubscribe links are a fantastic regulation, but there is a workaround. I must have received at least a dozen emails from Brown after graduating despite unsubscribing to every email they sent. The trouble is they're endlessly creative about the lists they put you on. I'd get one email from "Alumni Connections" and then another from "Faculty Spotlight" and then another from "Global Outreach" and then another from "Ev…

What I have noticed companies do is resume emails after a year or so. They probably think people would forget about unsubscribing them after a year, and for the most part they are right.

If I catch any of these email lists not respecting my unsubscribing, I immediately mark them as "spam".

Gmail then doesn't send them to my inbox anymore. I don't think just one person marking them as spam hurts them, but at least I feel gratified and my ego is satisfied.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#325

Post by itsdrewmiller »

Uehreka wrote: post #190

When people try and say that regulating stuff like this is impossible, I often think about how unreasonably great the regulations around “Unsubscribe” links in emails are. There really seems to be no loophole or workaround despite there being huge incentive for there to be one. Every time I click an “Unsubscribe” link in an email (it seems like they’re forced to say “Unsubscribe” and not use weasel words to hide the…

I don’t think regulation has much to do with their excellence at all - it’s largely ESPs competing to provide a better mailbox experience and using things like that and spf/dkim/dmarc conformance to reduce spam.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#326

Post by rootusrootus »

cortesoft wrote: post #174
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #96

It would be great to see the FTC go against predatory subscription services like Adobe. I'm fuzzy on the exact details, but I think they promoted a yearly subscription that was meant to look like a monthly subscription, where if you cancelled early they would charge you an exorbitant cancellation fee. I'm not sure how these new rules affect them. One recent idea I've had is that many online subscription services shou…

Man, I remember when Amazon Prime first started, I signed up for the free trial to get free shipping on something. Of course, I forgot about it and didn’t cancel, but then I got an email from Amazon saying, “hey, you didn’t cancel your prime subscription but you also haven’t used it at all, so we are going to not charge you and cancel it for now. Here is how you easily restart your subscription if you end up needing…

Early Amazon was pro-customer in a way that I think most people have forgotten. Maybe that was always the strategy? They were losing money for years, and maybe that was investing in the company, or maybe it was allowing really large losses to keep customers happy, planning all along to eventually clamp down when people were addicted. And here we are.

Their return rate is still pretty terrible, IIRC. I bet they are trying to cut that down. I still see a lot (and I mean a LOT) of obvious Amazon returns in the line at the UPS store, and some of them are quite egregious (I stood behind a lady for 5 solid minutes a couple weeks ago and she was pulling return after return out of a big bag). Maybe Amazon will start firing those customers.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#327

Post by linsomniac »

SoftTalker wrote: post #59
ssharp wrote: post #50

My workaround to this has been to email the company telling them I want to cancel. Once I either don't get a reply, or get a reply saying "just call us and we'll cancel!", I dispute the next charge with American Express and have the email record of trying to cancel. I believe they also offer a "stop allowing charges by this merchant" feature that cuts off future charges.

> I believe they also offer a "stop allowing charges by this merchant" feature If they have this it's another reason to use them for automatic billing. I have tried to do this with a VISA card and they said they cannot do it; the only way to prevent future charges would be to close that account entirely and even then I might still get billed for some period of time.

I use one of those banks that allows me to generate sub-accounts easily, each of which has an account number for e-checks and Debit card number. So I can use that for subscriptions, either fund it once, or fund it regularly via automated transfers from my main balance, or you can set it up to just automatically pull from your main account. Then when you're done with it, you can close that sub-account. It's worked very well for these sorts of subscriptions.

Specifically, I'm using Qube, but at this point I'm looking to move away from them and do not at all recommend them.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#328

Post by rootusrootus »

megiddo wrote: post #226
TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #96

It would be great to see the FTC go against predatory subscription services like Adobe. I'm fuzzy on the exact details, but I think they promoted a yearly subscription that was meant to look like a monthly subscription, where if you cancelled early they would charge you an exorbitant cancellation fee. I'm not sure how these new rules affect them. One recent idea I've had is that many online subscription services shou…

Let me regale you with the story of my Adobe Subscription cancellation. I had been considering learning Illustrator and to align myself, I decided to get a little skin the game. I signed up for the "monthly" subscription. I downloaded Illustrator, and this screenshot was my entire experience: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-prev... Suffice it to say, this didn't meet my expectations. I thus de…

IIRC the trick with Adobe is to cancel on the web site, and when it says "but, but, how about this great upgrade?" you say yes, and then you can cancel your 'new' plan during its introductory period.

Maybe they closed that loophole, but it did used to work not that long ago.

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#329

Post by datavirtue »

fooqux wrote: post #37
ajkjk wrote: post #28

There are so many things like this that have needed fixing for such a long time. The fact that something is happening, even slowly, is so heartening. If your reaction is wondering if this is legal then you should be interested in the passing of new laws that make it unequivocally legal. Society should be able to govern itself.

Agreed. The fact that multiple companies are springing up with the main selling point being "help you cancel subscriptions you thought you already cancelled" should be a wake up call to the legislature that this problem has gotten out of hand.

Why, when it was already solved by the market!? /s

Re: FTC announces "click-to-cancel" rule making it easier to cancel subscriptions

#330

Post by Symbiote »

Kon-Peki wrote: post #259
deanputney wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes should also be included in the advertised price, then. Just imagine!

That would be nice, but there is a LOT of background work before that is feasible (in the US). As it currently stands, for many products a vendor would need to know who you are and where you live before they could quote you a total price. That's unacceptable.

In Europe they make a best guess based on IP location, and if logged in using the account address or previous delivery address.

Then the price may change at the checkout if you put in a different/unexpected delivery address.

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