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PayloadCMS: Open-Source, Fullstack Next.js Framework

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Re: PayloadCMS: Open-Source, Fullstack Next.js Framework

#31

I tried to switch to this from keystonejs. Keystone’s documentation is painfully inconsistent with its library. I have lost entire days over it. but “it works.” Was expecting more with payload but seems to be another buggy experience but with better UI. Eagerly waiting for a player in this space that isn’t just developer-first but also developer-friendly.

Hey! I'm CEO of Payload and want to make sure we resolve any bugs you found. Pretty much the whole team is focused on closing issues right now as we work toward 3.0 stable so depending on when you were trying out Payload, I'd imagine you might see lots of the bugs you faced as already resolved.

Keystone would be my other vote though, if I were looking for a CMS and Payload didn't exist. I think that is a solid crew.

Re: PayloadCMS: Open-Source, Fullstack Next.js Framework

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> React is a library Can a library have compiler?)

That's an optional step for JSX cross-compilation. It's a language plugin; nothing really to do with frameworks or libraries.

They're going further than jsx transpilation[1]

[1] https://react.dev/learn/react-compiler

Re: PayloadCMS: Open-Source, Fullstack Next.js Framework

#33
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A common misconception. React is a library. These are examples for React frameworks: https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project#production... Next.js is a React framework. If Payload is a framework or not is debatable. I think it's more like a data layer around a database for a any js app and an Admin Panel (that uses Next.js now). It might be called a framework for your own Headless CMS, because it is code fi…

React was a library before hooks. Now it is a framework and decides when your code runs, not you. And now it is a terrible framework with server components.

I think server components have been very badly marketed. They're totally opt-in, so I don't see how this would make React instantly a terrible framework. I for one think they represent a lot of value.

If you don't use them, then React is quite literally no different to you.

Re: PayloadCMS: Open-Source, Fullstack Next.js Framework

#34
post #9
post #2

So let me get this straight... PayloadCMS is a framework, for Next.js which is a framework for the React framework. Yo dawg, i heard you like frameworks!

A common misconception. React is a library. These are examples for React frameworks: https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project#production... Next.js is a React framework. If Payload is a framework or not is debatable. I think it's more like a data layer around a database for a any js app and an Admin Panel (that uses Next.js now). It might be called a framework for your own Headless CMS, because it is code fi…

A sword is also just a knife. And a Tesla truck is just an electric go-kart.

Re: PayloadCMS: Open-Source, Fullstack Next.js Framework

#35
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A common misconception. React is a library. These are examples for React frameworks: https://react.dev/learn/start-a-new-react-project#production... Next.js is a React framework. If Payload is a framework or not is debatable. I think it's more like a data layer around a database for a any js app and an Admin Panel (that uses Next.js now). It might be called a framework for your own Headless CMS, because it is code fi…

React hasn't been a library since they added hooks. Hooks themselves are just a solution to async code, but the implication was that react was no longer a state-based UI rendering library and became a full blown frontend framework.

Hard to call something a full blown front end framework when it doesn’t have routing.

Re: PayloadCMS: Open-Source, Fullstack Next.js Framework

#36
post #28
post #7

I've been using Payload for 18 months. They're only recently (with the upcoming v3 release) really piggy-backing on Next.js' server and routing. Before that, it was "just" a really nice headless CMS built on Node/TypeScript. This was obviously posted in the wake of the WordPress drama, but I landed on Payload while feeling stagnant after 10+ years building on WordPress. Everything else I was doing was 100% TypeScript…

How easy/hard would you consider the amount of work needed to create a ecommerce for digital products using Payload? I'm currently using WP + Woo but the plugins that I'm using aren't flexible enough and I'm re-inventing some of them, so might as well re-invent some more and learn Next.

Payload has an e-commerce template, but it definitely pales in comparison to WooCommerce. I can't speak to specifics, but if I were looking to migrate away from WooCommerce, I'd look at MedusaJS (http://medusajs.com)

Re: PayloadCMS: Open-Source, Fullstack Next.js Framework

#37
post #7

I've been using Payload for 18 months. They're only recently (with the upcoming v3 release) really piggy-backing on Next.js' server and routing. Before that, it was "just" a really nice headless CMS built on Node/TypeScript. This was obviously posted in the wake of the WordPress drama, but I landed on Payload while feeling stagnant after 10+ years building on WordPress. Everything else I was doing was 100% TypeScript…

how does it compare to Django as far as battery-included goes

NextJS instead of templates. Full-featured admin area. I'd say Payload is more akin to Wagtail than Django itself. It feels ridiculously modern compared to other CMSes I've touched, Wagtail included. Payload doesn't prescribe i18n like Django.

When you need to, you can step down into NextJS and write custom endpoints and the like.

Re: PayloadCMS: Open-Source, Fullstack Next.js Framework

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

React hasn't been a library since they added hooks. Hooks themselves are just a solution to async code, but the implication was that react was no longer a state-based UI rendering library and became a full blown frontend framework.

Hard to call something a full blown front end framework when it doesn’t have routing.

Routing is only important for a single page applications. Frontend frameworks are applicable to normal websites as well, they don't have to be SPAs with routing, caching, etc.

Re: PayloadCMS: Open-Source, Fullstack Next.js Framework

#39

The pitch alone on PayloadCMS shows that this is still a developer-focused CMS. Just look at the difference between the github page, the Payload website, and wordpress.org's landing. This is not purely a marketing difference but a strategic conversation. I'm all about transitioning CMSes and yet WordPress has got the turnkey part of their open-source platform clear and easy to understand. You can self-host or choose…

I worry about the criticisms I see about Payload not marketing to marketers and site builders, because as a dev I’m a huge fan and would love to see it thrive.

It’s a fair point, especially given that in so many cases the marketers are the ones procuring the CMS. And people who don’t code at all are a big portion of WP’s market.

My main concern is I’m not sure it’s easy for non-devs to see how much of the PHPish ecosystems are filling gaps in the CMS core. I don’t know how many previous CMSes the Payload folks had used before going about building it, but I’ve built tons of features and templates on most of the big ones, and IMO they did a phenomenal job of boiling it down to exactly what a developer needs to build any feature any customer or employer could ever want.

There’s no need for, say, a heavy SEO plugin. You can just define the fields you want your people to fill out and attach those fields to whatever content types you’d like. Then use those fields in the head when presenting the content out front in whatever frontend you want to use.

On top of that, you have all of the JS ecosystem you can plug right in. Dataviz for custom dashboards, data crunching, video and image processing, all of it. And because you’re not starting with a huge, opinionated plugin/module/contrib, it’s not the clunky and unfun when you need a feature that wasn’t there before. It’s so much easier to build exactly what you need if you’re comfortable with code.

SO much of a serious CMS is just content CRUD, and Payload makes it so simple to define your content types in code, where they objectively should be defined for the sake disaster recovery and reliable builds across all environments.

Re: PayloadCMS: Open-Source, Fullstack Next.js Framework

#40
post #28
post #7

I've been using Payload for 18 months. They're only recently (with the upcoming v3 release) really piggy-backing on Next.js' server and routing. Before that, it was "just" a really nice headless CMS built on Node/TypeScript. This was obviously posted in the wake of the WordPress drama, but I landed on Payload while feeling stagnant after 10+ years building on WordPress. Everything else I was doing was 100% TypeScript…

How easy/hard would you consider the amount of work needed to create a ecommerce for digital products using Payload? I'm currently using WP + Woo but the plugins that I'm using aren't flexible enough and I'm re-inventing some of them, so might as well re-invent some more and learn Next.

I feel like everyone runs into this in WP dev eventually, but not everyone is honest with themselves about it. It can get messy, fast — I’ve certainly been there!

I’d be interested to know what sort of work your plugins are doing. I think a lot of that ecosystem is there to fill gaps — ACFish custom field functionality, for example, is core functionality in Drupal, Payload and many others.

Just another example — I love Drupal, but the Paragraphs module was always filling a gap in Drupal that Payload’s simple, but quite powerful ‘blocks’ field type makes easy.

Another thing I didn’t realize I love about it until just now: the hooks system is super clear. It’ a lot of the same stuff you use in WP, Drupal and others, where you can hook into functionality. With WP and Drupal, it wasn’t super obvious which hooks fire when. It can take some immersion to really understand it.

I’m such a Payload Stan. I don’t work there, I swear! I’m looking forward to trying out 3.0 embedded in Sveltekit soon here.

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