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The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

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Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#151

Post by mananaysiempre »

swiftcoder wrote: post #103
seydor wrote: post #10

As essential as smoking ban. I won't be surprised to see this expanded to adult situations

Weddings in particular seem to have evolved "check your phone at the door" policies. Though perhaps mostly to keep folks from ruining the professional photographers shots by constantly diving into the action with cameraphones/flashes blazing...

> "check your phone at the door" policies

No, no, no. A device in a (near-)stranger’s unsupervised physical possession for hours is a compromised device. No.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#152

Post by kelnos »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #38

There used to be a Silicon Valley parents versus not divide in my personal observation of kids with smart phones/tablets. It’s now generalised to a class division: the children of the rich tend to have tight restrictions at home and, increasingly, at school, around device use. We need statewide rules if we’re to avoid creating a generational gap in cognitive and social competence.

That's not surprising. Rich people can afford childcare for all or a large part of the day, and can instruct their nanny to actually engage the child rather than pacifying them with a tablet screen.

Parents who can't afford that will resort to anything to occupy their child when they need a moment of peace, and it's hard to blame them, honestly.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#153

Post by kelnos »

mananaysiempre wrote: post #151
swiftcoder wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weddings in particular seem to have evolved "check your phone at the door" policies. Though perhaps mostly to keep folks from ruining the professional photographers shots by constantly diving into the action with cameraphones/flashes blazing...

> "check your phone at the door" policies No, no, no. A device in a (near-)stranger’s unsupervised physical possession for hours is a compromised device. No.

Conceptually I like the idea of giving everyone a locking pouch to put the phone in, with the ability to unlock it provided at the end of the event. That way the phone never leaves your person, but is unusable.

But at the same time this sort of thing would also make me kinda annoyed (as I have no problem, generally, keeping my phone in my pocket, on silent, when having it out is inappropriate0.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#154

Post by DHPersonal »

WorkerBee28474 wrote: post #146
DHPersonal wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jonathan Haidt has also been critiqued by his peers [1] for looking at the data with a foregone conclusion instead of getting his conclusion from the data. He's another one of those moral panic peddlers and should not be trusted as a reliable source. [2] 1. https://www.youtube.com/live/Ewxe4pWOH-I 2. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1647639025879064579.html

You seem to dismiss anyone who claims a "moral panic" while relying on a source that claims multiple moral panics as the issue, such as "the fact that we're living in a late stage capitalist hellscape ... [without a] social safety net...as climate change cooks the world". Furthermore, your backup includes 'X can't be caused by Y because X happened before Y existed'. This ignores that possibility that X can be caused…

Climate change is real, so it’s not a moral panic. I am not interested in sharing sources about this with you in 2024, because this has already been debated to death in the years prior. If you are not convinced of its existence, then that’s more your concern than mine.

Late stage capitalism’s reference is a touchy subject and probably hyperbole in most cases, but it is also a specific reference and does not require the complete abandonment of capitalism to repair the problems. Referring to it does not necessarily equate to a moral panic in my definition of the terms.

I do not ignore the possibility you cite; I find the reasoning of it existing prior far more convincing.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#155

Post by lemoncookiechip »

naming_the_user wrote: post #45

It really can't be underestimated either for children or adults how much we are dependent on ease of access. If you're stuck in a room and the only thing you can do is read a math textbook you are going to do it. If you are stuck in a room and you have a math textbook and a novel you now have a choice. A phone? A phone is everything else. You're putting "the thing we are supposed to be doing" and "everything else" in…

> If you're stuck in a room and the only thing you can do is read a math textbook you are going to do it.

I would literally doodle, stare out a window, zone out daydreaming, or anything else other than read a textbook I didn't want to read for one reason or another, or pay attention to a teacher for that matter.

Yes, it is anecdotal, but I'm sure we've all been children before, and even if you didn't do it, people around you surely did if you paid any attention. For god sake, I remember my classmates just using a lighter on small patches of whiteout ink during one specific class because of how bored they were. Extreme example? Yes. But passing papers, making paper planes, and other crafts, literally anything to pass the time.

This isn't exclusive to children either. If an adult doesn't want to do something, they might very well not unless forced to, and even then.

Btw, I'm not trying to argue about banning or not banning a phone, this is specifically about the statement above.

EDIT: I should probably mention that this isn't a 5min thing, I could easily zone a teacher out for 45min-90min blocks if I didn't care about what they had to say, much less a book I didn't want to read.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#156

Post by tylergetsay »

mananaysiempre wrote: post #151
swiftcoder wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weddings in particular seem to have evolved "check your phone at the door" policies. Though perhaps mostly to keep folks from ruining the professional photographers shots by constantly diving into the action with cameraphones/flashes blazing...

> "check your phone at the door" policies No, no, no. A device in a (near-)stranger’s unsupervised physical possession for hours is a compromised device. No.

Not really, a phone in first boot not unlocked state is secure against most threat models

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#157

Post by fullspectrumdev »

astrobe_ wrote: post #56
insane_dreamer wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a student could be reading a bunch of fiction on their phone It's a nice thought, but I have kids that age and never have I once seen this happen or heard of it happening with any of their friends/classmates; that's not what phones are for according to GenZ/GenA

According to everyone, I think. E-readers exist for that precise reason, although actual books are the best according to me: no battery, more resilient, can be lent. Phones are great as dictionaries (notably foreign language dictionaries).

I find most ereaders to be absolute garbage and just read books on my phone.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#158

Post by croes »

lemoncookiechip wrote: post #155
naming_the_user wrote: post #45

It really can't be underestimated either for children or adults how much we are dependent on ease of access. If you're stuck in a room and the only thing you can do is read a math textbook you are going to do it. If you are stuck in a room and you have a math textbook and a novel you now have a choice. A phone? A phone is everything else. You're putting "the thing we are supposed to be doing" and "everything else" in…

> If you're stuck in a room and the only thing you can do is read a math textbook you are going to do it. I would literally doodle, stare out a window, zone out daydreaming, or anything else other than read a textbook I didn't want to read for one reason or another, or pay attention to a teacher for that matter. Yes, it is anecdotal, but I'm sure we've all been children before, and even if you didn't do it, people ar…

I think it about probabilities.

A smartphone is a guaranteed distraction because of what you can do with it.

No smartphone doesn't guarantee you read the book, but the chances are higher.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#159

Post by Spooky23 »

drdaeman wrote: post #144
naming_the_user wrote: post #45

It really can't be underestimated either for children or adults how much we are dependent on ease of access. If you're stuck in a room and the only thing you can do is read a math textbook you are going to do it. If you are stuck in a room and you have a math textbook and a novel you now have a choice. A phone? A phone is everything else. You're putting "the thing we are supposed to be doing" and "everything else" in…

> If you're stuck in a room and the only thing you can do is read a math textbook you are going to do it. I'm not so sure if this is true. No clue about kids, but if I'm (personally) stuck at the office and I'm really not feeling like working, I can literally stare at a wall daydreaming rather than do something. And the contrary is also true - if I'm "stuck" at some fancy place with lots to do (like home, lol) but fe…

It’s more than that. You sitting in your living room watching Netflix instead of working is different than a classroom.

In a classroom environment, once one kid is futzing around on their phone, others follow. That creates issues for the teachers who end up policing behavior instead of their jobs. You also have the obvious issues with cheating.

When I was the president of a school board, a subset of active and vocal parents were against the ban, citing a desire say goodbye to their kids in the event of a school massacre. In some cases I had doubts with respect to the veracity of that argument. The parents are a problem too - many have an expectation to text or speak to kids throughout the day.

The school handled it well IMO, no phones until grade 5, then kids can have them in their locker and use them at specific times.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#160

Post by croes »

drdaeman wrote: post #144
naming_the_user wrote: post #45

It really can't be underestimated either for children or adults how much we are dependent on ease of access. If you're stuck in a room and the only thing you can do is read a math textbook you are going to do it. If you are stuck in a room and you have a math textbook and a novel you now have a choice. A phone? A phone is everything else. You're putting "the thing we are supposed to be doing" and "everything else" in…

> If you're stuck in a room and the only thing you can do is read a math textbook you are going to do it. I'm not so sure if this is true. No clue about kids, but if I'm (personally) stuck at the office and I'm really not feeling like working, I can literally stare at a wall daydreaming rather than do something. And the contrary is also true - if I'm "stuck" at some fancy place with lots to do (like home, lol) but fe…

I bet it's the phone.

Even if you're interested a smartphone can distract you.

So no smartphone helps those people to focus on the remaining possibilities.

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