The phone ban has had a big impact on school work • Hacker News Board

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#141

Post by nosianu » Sat, Oct 12, 2024, 6:41 PM UTC

chgs wrote: post #82

oblio wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you just give them a dumb phone? Also, why do parents these days need so much that their kids have some an instant communication device?

When I was a kid I could phone home from a pay phone. Can’t do that nowadays.

Now I feel reminded of Monty Python' sketch "The Four Yorkshiremen" - https://youtu.be/DT1mGoLDRbc

Back in my day we didn't even have a phone!

1980s East Germany, many homes did not have a phone. My parents could have gotten one, their job was important enough, but they did not want to be disturbed at home so they never asked for the great privilege of having a home phone.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#142

Post by andrewinardeer » Sat, Oct 12, 2024, 6:48 PM UTC

One great thing about phone bans is that it brings equilibrium to teachers.

A teacher has a bad day and a kid films the teacher crying? It's all over the socials and teacher is mocked.

A kid has a bad day and throws a chair through a window while the teacher films it? Teacher is likely sacked for filming kids at school.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#143

Post by kelnos » Sat, Oct 12, 2024, 6:49 PM UTC

It has always felt absolutely bonkers to me that smartphone bans weren't put into place instantly across US schools as soon as they started becoming common.

I grew up in the 80s and 90s. If I'd brought a handheld game console like a Gameboy or something into class, it would have been confiscated immediately. Sure, I get it, that's not the same thing; obviously phones have other uses.

But there is absolutely zero reason a kid needs their smartphone during class. All educational materials should be provided by the school. Kids do not need to be and should not be communicating with anyone outside class. If parents/guardians need to get in touch with kids during an emergency, they can do it the way they've done it as long as we've had the telephone: call the main office and have someone walk to the class to bring the kid to the phone.

I do expect that smartphones could actually bring something useful to the classroom -- after all, they grant access to more or less all the world's knowledge -- but the downsides of allowing them far far far outweigh any possible upsides.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#144

Post by drdaeman » Sat, Oct 12, 2024, 6:50 PM UTC

naming_the_user wrote: post #45

It really can't be underestimated either for children or adults how much we are dependent on ease of access. If you're stuck in a room and the only thing you can do is read a math textbook you are going to do it. If you are stuck in a room and you have a math textbook and a novel you now have a choice. A phone? A phone is everything else. You're putting "the thing we are supposed to be doing" and "everything else" in…

> If you're stuck in a room and the only thing you can do is read a math textbook you are going to do it.

I'm not so sure if this is true. No clue about kids, but if I'm (personally) stuck at the office and I'm really not feeling like working, I can literally stare at a wall daydreaming rather than do something. And the contrary is also true - if I'm "stuck" at some fancy place with lots to do (like home, lol) but feel like working (and have means to do so), there's no stopping me.

I suspect the problem isn't the phones, the problem is lack of honest, genuine interest. Compliance can be enforced, but I'm not sure about efficiency of learning under duress. Compulsion brings aversion.

This, of course, is a purely idealistic view, assuming ideal high-skilled spherical educators in vacuum rather than actual real-world conditions. While there are always ways to captivate interest and steer it into productive learning, it requires some orders of magnitude more resources than what's available.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#145

Post by countrymile » Sat, Oct 12, 2024, 6:50 PM UTC

A lot of interesting debate on phone bans right now. Including a great discussion on twitter about how some of the research being used to justify bans is using some dodgy stats: https://x.com/MatthewBJane/status/1843795198109000034

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#146

Post by WorkerBee28474 » Sat, Oct 12, 2024, 6:52 PM UTC

DHPersonal wrote: post #71

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #6

Glad to see phone bans become more popular. Jonathan Haidt had it on his list of suggestions to parents, to avoid the anxiety generation continuing. He had a longer list but the four big ones were: No smartphones before high school No social media before 16 No phones in schools More free, independent play

Jonathan Haidt has also been critiqued by his peers [1] for looking at the data with a foregone conclusion instead of getting his conclusion from the data. He's another one of those moral panic peddlers and should not be trusted as a reliable source. [2] 1. https://www.youtube.com/live/Ewxe4pWOH-I 2. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1647639025879064579.html

You seem to dismiss anyone who claims a "moral panic" while relying on a source that claims multiple moral panics as the issue, such as "the fact that we're living in a late stage capitalist hellscape ... [without a] social safety net...as climate change cooks the world".

Furthermore, your backup includes 'X can't be caused by Y because X happened before Y existed'. This ignores that possibility that X can be caused by Y and also caused by something else that existed before Y.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#147

Post by kelnos » Sat, Oct 12, 2024, 6:52 PM UTC

andrewinardeer wrote: post #142

One great thing about phone bans is that it brings equilibrium to teachers. A teacher has a bad day and a kid films the teacher crying? It's all over the socials and teacher is mocked. A kid has a bad day and throws a chair through a window while the teacher films it? Teacher is likely sacked for filming kids at school.

> A kid has a bad day and throws a chair through a window while the teacher films it? Teacher is likely sacked for filming kids at school.

Assuming the teacher doesn't post that video, and only uses it as evidence for what the student did, why would they get fired for this?

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#148

Post by kelnos » Sat, Oct 12, 2024, 6:54 PM UTC

chgs wrote: post #82

oblio wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't you just give them a dumb phone? Also, why do parents these days need so much that their kids have some an instant communication device?

When I was a kid I could phone home from a pay phone. Can’t do that nowadays.

While they're at school, they can use the phone in the school's main office to call home if there's an emergency.

Smartphones can be left in a locker (or somewhere else inaccessible during the school day) for use on the way to school and home if something happens.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#149

Post by kelnos » Sat, Oct 12, 2024, 6:56 PM UTC

dopylitty wrote: post #34

seydor wrote: post #10

As essential as smoking ban. I won't be surprised to see this expanded to adult situations

It should've been expanded into driving a long time ago. There are laws against distracted driving but I still see people weaving around like they're drunk on the roads. When I look into the car they're usually holding a phone (on speakerphone) or holding it up to their ear. People suck at driving enough as it is without driving one handed and distracted.

This is illegal most (all?) places in the US, but as with many things, it's poorly enforced.

Re: The phone ban has had a big impact on school work

#150

Post by lukeschlather » Sat, Oct 12, 2024, 6:57 PM UTC

drdaeman wrote: post #144

naming_the_user wrote: post #45

It really can't be underestimated either for children or adults how much we are dependent on ease of access. If you're stuck in a room and the only thing you can do is read a math textbook you are going to do it. If you are stuck in a room and you have a math textbook and a novel you now have a choice. A phone? A phone is everything else. You're putting "the thing we are supposed to be doing" and "everything else" in…

> If you're stuck in a room and the only thing you can do is read a math textbook you are going to do it. I'm not so sure if this is true. No clue about kids, but if I'm (personally) stuck at the office and I'm really not feeling like working, I can literally stare at a wall daydreaming rather than do something. And the contrary is also true - if I'm "stuck" at some fancy place with lots to do (like home, lol) but fe…

> I can literally stare at a wall daydreaming rather than do something. And the contrary is also true - if I'm "stuck" at some fancy place but feel like working (and have means to do so), there's no stopping me.

I mean there's a very broad spectrum here, and a slight distraction can be the difference between spending 5 minutes staring at a wall followed by three hours in flow state vs. spending three hours in mindless distractions.

And children don't have any experience in how to cultivate flow state in the presence of distraction. Removing distractions naturally provides more opportunities to find the flow.