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Helping wikis move away from Fandom

weirdgloop.org

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Re: Helping wikis move away from Fandom

#451

Post by BlueTemplar »

iamacyborg wrote: post #348
paranoidxprod wrote: post #45

A few years ago, Path of Exile migrated from the fandom to a new site. GGG (Path of Exile's company) even decided to host the new wiki on their servers ( https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3292958 )! At this point, the new wiki ranks higher then the old one, but for a time it was an issue. Interesting to see more cases of games wikis leaving Fandom with how horrible the site is, and hopefully this is just…

And we just launched the wiki for PoE2 which GGG are hosting for the community.

I think you mean "we are about to launch", since there is no information about it anywhere ?

(I'm guessing it does technically exist online, but access to it is limited to closed beta players (under NDA) for now ?)

Re: Helping wikis move away from Fandom

#452

Post by Svip »

account42 wrote: post #441
Svip wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Importantly, I have since set up Cloudflare before the website to help. I am just using their free tier, but looking at their analytics, they say we got about 350k HTTP(S) requests in the last 24 hours. Had it not been for Cloudflare, I am not sure my server could have handled that. Before I did that, I set up Varnish as a cache provider for users who are not logged in. That is effectively the second line of defence…

4 requests per second is absolutely something even a cheap VPS should be able to handle, even if you double that for peak load. You just need to put caching in front of everything dynamic. Disappointing for people just carelessly giving Buttflare the keys to the kingdom and effectively excluding alternative Browser users without considering other options.

To keep it simple, this is also a response to your sibling: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41807715

It's been a long time since I switched to Cloudflare. Looking through my email archive, it was December 2015. I uncovered an old discussion[0] about the switch, but it only seems to highlight that the server is slow.

But I think it speaks to my lack of skill in this area. I have no actual professional training in system administration, and entirely autodidactic in this area. Though it sounds like Weird Gloop can also provide guidance in these matters rather than simply taking on the hosting. I won't deny that at times I have felt defeated, and that may truly have been my reasoning for switching to Cloudflare.

Though this post and response so far have given me hope.

[0] https://theinfosphere.org/Table:Server_news! (the exclamation point is part of the URL, in case HN ignores it)

Re: Helping wikis move away from Fandom

#453

Post by sph »

card_zero wrote: post #357
marxisttemp wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m an anarchist too, and I would also take offense to being lumped in with libertarians! I only meant to say that they often seem to have the seeds of an anarchism in some of their thinking e.g. individual liberty and volunteerism, but then immediately embrace contradictory positions due to their inability to critique property.

I was an anarchist as a child because I read a short dictionary definition, maybe describing it as meaning "without rules", and I figured that was what I wanted in life. Then I graduated to libertarianism as a teenager. Then in my 20s I encountered people who really called themselves anarchists, and they were all basically socialists with a sprinkling of individualism, which seemed incoherent because the socialism is…

> I was an anarchist as a child because I read a short dictionary definition, maybe describing it as meaning "without rules", and I figured that was what I wanted in life.

I was an anarchist as a teenager. Then I stopped thinking about politics until recently, when I rediscovered it, with a much more critical look. Then I read the Tao Te Ching, fell in love with its positive view of humanity and nature, and more importantly because Laozi can be described as the first anarchist but more grounded, as a large part of his work was advising actual monarchs, not academic posturing that's prevalent today.

Anarchism today means everything and nothing. One thing I have learned to loathe in my adult age is any form of anarcho-communism, as communism is nothing more than dictatorship of the proletariat. The much maligned anarcho-capitalism, and even early American libertarianism is more compatible with the ideas of freedom and "don't tread on me nor impose any rules on me" than any anarcho-communism that has been so popular in the past 100 years. Why should proletariat decide that I cannot have any private property?

On the other side, Randian and modern day libertarians are just conservative republicans with a different name, but libertarianism at the end of the 19th century had its root firmly in anarchist ideals.

Re: Helping wikis move away from Fandom

#455

Post by debesyla »

morjom wrote: post #430

The Oldschool Runescape and Guild Wars wikis are still some of the best wikis I've experienced. Both of them are even implemented into the game. In GW1&2 you can just type /wiki and it'll open a browser tab to the wikipage. In OSRS there's a button next to the minimap that you click on first and then on the subject and it opens the wikipage for it. I wish Warframe would move to a osrswiki model. A theorycraft heavy g…

What I super love about Guild Wars 2 wiki is that it embraces the API that the game has - enter your personal API code and get personalized Achievement, Item progress and etc. tracking. Super cool!

Oh, and, yeah, I probabbly have "/wiki et" as a muscle memory now - it's so fast and easy to check in-game events using this chat command.

Re: Helping wikis move away from Fandom

#456

Post by yard2010 »

Dwedit wrote: post #129
citricsquid wrote: post #38

As the person ultimately responsible for the Minecraft Wiki ending up in the hands of Fandom, it is great to see what Weird Gloop (and similar) are achieving. At the time of selling out, the Minecraft Wiki and Minecraft Forum cost tens of thousands of dollars per month to run and so it didn't feel too much like selling out, because we needed money to survive[1]. 15 years later, the internet is a different place, and…

Ah Cloudflare, where you constantly get captchas for attempting to read a web page .

The other side of the coin is lizards trying to literally end the internet era with their irresponsible behavior, and hell, making a nice living in the process

Re: Helping wikis move away from Fandom

#457

Post by Aachen »

ezrast wrote: post #396
Aachen wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's in the CDN's interest for you to get a DDOS What kind of conspiracy is this? As if anyone charging for bandwidth hopes to get their infrastructure attacked

The whole point of systemic incentives is that there is no conspiracy. Nobody wants a DDOS and every large provider will have people genuinely working to avoid them. But every time there is an opportunity to allocate resources, the team that gets to frame their return on investment in terms of real dollars will always have an edge over one whose value is realized only in murky customer satisfaction projections. Over…

That's sound logic. In this specific case of capitalistic incentives, I haven't noticed that it's working out in a way that make one more vulnerable to DDoS when one pays for bandwidth

Re: Helping wikis move away from Fandom

#458

Post by Aachen »

cxr wrote: post #429
ezrast wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of systemic incentives is that there is no conspiracy. Nobody wants a DDOS and every large provider will have people genuinely working to avoid them. But every time there is an opportunity to allocate resources, the team that gets to frame their return on investment in terms of real dollars will always have an edge over one whose value is realized only in murky customer satisfaction projections. Over…

And then you have someone like the founder of Fly.io who has been explicit about that mindset at least once: > putting work into features specifically to minimize how much people spend seems like a good way to fail a company

Found the source for more context: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24699292

Re: Helping wikis move away from Fandom

#459

Post by cduzz »

account42 wrote: post #441
Svip wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Importantly, I have since set up Cloudflare before the website to help. I am just using their free tier, but looking at their analytics, they say we got about 350k HTTP(S) requests in the last 24 hours. Had it not been for Cloudflare, I am not sure my server could have handled that. Before I did that, I set up Varnish as a cache provider for users who are not logged in. That is effectively the second line of defence…

4 requests per second is absolutely something even a cheap VPS should be able to handle, even if you double that for peak load. You just need to put caching in front of everything dynamic. Disappointing for people just carelessly giving Buttflare the keys to the kingdom and effectively excluding alternative Browser users without considering other options.

An off-hand reference to "350k/day" shouldn't be naively translated to "4 per second"

350k/ day likely means sometimes it's 3.5 million, all smashed into a 30 minute period of time, because some nitwit linked to my site.

And then, I get paged about "my site being down" and I have to stop hanging out with my friends or family and fiddle around with things I don't want to fuzz with. Or maybe it just breaks and doesn't self heal and it is offline for a week until I notice it and fix it, and by then people all think the site's gone.

Anyhow, sure, maybe people not wanting to devote their lives to devops fanfic is something that can "just be solved with this simple trick cloudflare hates" but maybe not.

Re: Helping wikis move away from Fandom

#460

Post by immibis »

ARandumGuy wrote: post #211
teddyh wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can only draw the obvious conclusion: Namely that Google plans to introduce a lot more ads once they have an iron grip on the consumer. If Google did that before Google destroyed ad blockers, regular people would indeed start to use ad blockers.

That's possible, but I think it's premature to think this is part of some grand plan. What likely happened is that Google estimated the cost to fund a team to shut down ad blockers was less then the money they were losing from ad blockers. Maybe it's part of a larger initiative, but I'd be hesitant to assume that without more evidence.

Remember that Google has established a pattern of hiding their true motivations so well that even lawyers can't find them (internal chats "off the record"), and they're in trouble with the law as a result.
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